OK... I still have these nagging questions:

[Accountable]

I know exactly what I am talking about. I was raised a Catholic and wasn't saved until I was 20. After I was saved my perception of who God was changed drastically. Now on this board I read of Baptists who are trying to preach to me and others the same God of the RCC, and believe me there is a difference. The RCC is a religion of works and a religion of fear--where God is to be feared rather than to be loved. It is a message of fear rather than of love. I came out of that, and now I am hearing it all over again.
"If you don't do good you will be cast into a Baptist Purgatory and their suffer torment at the hands of a cruel God; therefore fear and lest the hand of God strike you dead and you stand before him ready to be cast into a place of His judgement. Beware, Beware, God is a fearful Judge. He is every ready to judge the disobedient. Do Good and Fear! Fear the consequences of the Baptist Purgatory to come!"

Sure. I listened to things like that before I was saved. Maybe it wasn't so much hell fire preaching, but rather the teaching was there. And I am ashamed to say that there are Baptists on this board who are teaching that same Catholic theology, and presenting a loving merciful God, as a god that resembles more like Allah than Jesus.
.

Dear Brother, I deal with the RCC on a daily basis. As I witness for the Lord, I show them the freedom from bondage. I teach them that they cannot work their way to Heaven. I do not teach the catholic false doctrines.
This would be a false accusation. After spiritual salvation, we prepare them and teach them as Jesus said. To seek the Kingdom of God!

 

[DHK]

heresy schmeresy

Hebrews 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

I don't deny that "he learned obedience by these things."
That is not what I was questioning.
What I said is: Did he have to? Did he have to "learn obedience?
Did he have to leave his throne of glory and come and die?
He is the Creator; we are the creatures. He didn't have to do anything for us. We deserve to die and go to hell. It is only of His grace that we live and are offered the chance to believe and go to heaven. But God is under no obligation to offer his free grace to us. He can be perfectly righteous and condemn the entire world to hell. We deserve it.
The point is that your view of God is a cruel God that one should live in the shadow of fear; whereas the Bible presents God as a God of love, whose love is so incomprehensible that there is no way that man could ever understand the great love that was demonstrated on the cross when Christ, the Creator died for our sins.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Dear Brother, I deal with the RCC on a daily basis. As I witness for the Lord, I show them the freedom from bondage. I teach them that they cannot work their way to Heaven. I do not teach the catholic false doctrines.
This would be a false accusation. After spiritual salvation, we prepare them and teach them as Jesus said. To seek the Kingdom of God!

You show them freedom from bondage by teaching them that God will cast His Children into outer darkness/hell? That is not freedom from bondage at all.

It is a message of fear. A message of wrath. A message of bondage.

 

[Lacy Evans]

The Bible says. Common sense says. Biblical theology says. Everyone but you, apparently.
The JSOC is a heavenly scene. To get to that heaven common sense tells us that the rapture must take place, and we receive our glorified bodies. You cannot stand in heaven before Jesus Christ, to whom you will give account of yourself if you do not have a glorified body.

A resurrected body? yes. An imortal, incorruptable body? yes. A "heavenly" body? ok.

1 Corinthians 15:42-44
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

1 Corinthians 15:48-54
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

But where the Bible speaks of a glorified body it is conditional upon watching, having your "conversation/lifestyle" in Haeven, and following after paul.

Philippians 3:16-21
16 Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.
17 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.
18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:
19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)
20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

 

[DHK]

Dear Brother, I deal with the RCC on a daily basis. As I witness for the Lord, I show them the freedom from bondage. I teach them that they cannot work their way to Heaven. I do not teach the catholic false doctrines.
This would be a false accusation. After spiritual salvation, we prepare them and teach them as Jesus said. To seek the Kingdom of God!

I think it would be better if you would do this:

Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.

Instead of the kingdom, it would be better if we would "look unto Jesus," and keep our eyes focused on him. It says that he is the author and finisher of our faith. The kingdom is not, but Christ is.
Again, we are to "Consider Him." Keep thinkiing, meditating upon the one who died for you. He was the one who endured the sufferings, and despised the shame of the cross--and it was all for you. It was not for the kingdom that he did this for--it was for you.
Consider Him.

 

[TCGreek]

A resurrected body? yes. An imortal, incorruptable body? yes. A "heavenly" body? ok.



But where the Bible speaks of a glorified body it is conditional upon watching, having your "conversation/lifestyle" in Haeven, and following after paul.

1. Unfortunately, the KJV translated politeuma as "conversation," but really it should be "commonwealth or citizenship."

2. Paul was saying to the Philippians that their true home is heaven and not in the Roman colony of Philippi.

3. So there's nothing conditional about heaven in this verse.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

I think it would be better if you would do this:

Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.

Instead of the kingdom, it would be better if we would "look unto Jesus," and keep our eyes focused on him. It says that he is the author and finisher of our faith. The kingdom is not, but Christ is.
Again, we are to "Consider Him." Keep thinkiing, meditating upon the one who died for you. He was the one who endured the sufferings, and despised the shame of the cross--and it was all for you. It was not for the kingdom that he did this for--it was for you.
Consider Him.

Amen, DHK!!

 

[DHK]

A resurrected body? yes. An imortal, incorruptable body? yes. A "heavenly" body? ok.
But where the Bible speaks of a glorified body it is conditional upon watching, having your "conversation/lifestyle" in Haeven, and following after paul.

Once it is resurrected it is glorified. To make such didactic dichotomies is rather trite and redundant. A resurrected body is a glorified body. The body does not differentiate between the two.

 

[Accountable]

I think it would be better if you would do this:

Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.

Instead of the kingdom, it would be better if we would "look unto Jesus," and keep our eyes focused on him. It says that he is the author and finisher of our faith. The kingdom is not, but Christ is.
Again, we are to "Consider Him." Keep thinkiing, meditating upon the one who died for you. He was the one who endured the sufferings, and despised the shame of the cross--and it was all for you. It was not for the kingdom that he did this for--it was for you.
Consider Him.

Just out of curiosity... do you seek the kingdom of God or did you mark that verse out? Naturaly we teach them to look unto Christ. We just lay aside the doctrines of christ and go on. Looks as if many have not left these doctrines and are still in the milk. Do not misunderstand me, I stand in awe of the wonderfulness of the finished work at Calvary. I am greatful. Should we then forget about every warning given to believers?

 

[TCGreek]

"A resurrected body is a glorified body." Amen!

 

[Accountable]

You show them freedom from bondage by teaching them that God will cast His Children into outer darkness/hell? That is not freedom from bondage at all.

It is a message of fear. A message of wrath. A message of bondage.

How much does it cost to ride your merry-go-round?

 

[Lacy Evans]

Instead of the kingdom, it would be better if we would "look unto Jesus," and keep our eyes focused on him. It says that he is the author and finisher of our faith. The kingdom is not, but Christ is.
Again, we are to "Consider Him." Keep thinkiing, meditating upon the one who died for you. He was the one who endured the sufferings, and despised the shame of the cross--and it was all for you. It was not for the kingdom that he did this for--it was for you.
Consider Him.

Here is how we look unto Jesus.

Matthew 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

 

[Lacy Evans]

"A resurrected body is a glorified body." Amen!

Proof please. Scripture! Dogmatic statements not accepted.

 

[DHK]

Just out of curiosity... do you seek the kingdom of God or did you mark that verse out? Naturaly we teach them to look unto Christ. We just lay aside the doctrines of christ and go on. Looks as if many have not left these doctrines and are still in the milk. Do not misunderstand me, I stand in awe of the wonderfulness of the finished work at Calvary. I am greatful. Should we then forget about every warning given to believers?

No, I do not seek the kingdom of God (Mat.6:33), as it was a statement directed to the Jews. But rather I seek the things of the kingdom of God as opposed to the things of this world. I believe that is the meaning behind the verse. As is said elsewhere:
Colossians 3:2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.

 

[TCGreek]

Proof please. Scripture! Dogmatic statements not accepted.

1 Cor 15:40-44

 

[Lacy Evans]

No, I do not seek the kingdom of God (Mat.6:33), as it was a statement directed to the Jews.

First prove that statement with Scripture *(Preferrably Pauline:laugh: )

But rather I seek the things of the kingdom of God as opposed to the things of this world. I believe that is the meaning behind the verse. As is said elsewhere:
Colossians 3:2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.

Next explain this passage.

Matthew 28:19-20
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

 

[Lacy Evans]

1 Cor 15:40-44

One star is shiner than another. One believer gets more glory than another.

Based on what? Answser that!

Then answer what about those who are disobedient, unwatchful, unmerciful, and unrepentant?

 

[Accountable]

1 Cor 15:40-44

Not to start a totlay new debate but I do not see this scripture as the Rapture before the Great Tribulation anyway.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Not to start a totlay new debate but I do not see this scripture as the Rapture before the Great Tribulation anyway.

with all the other false teachings you adhere to, should it surprise us that you don't see this Scripture as the Rapture before the Great Tribulation?

 

[TCGreek]

One star is shiner than another. One believer gets more glory than another.

Based on what? Answser that!

Then answer what about those who are disobedient, unwatchful, unmerciful, and unrepentant?

1. Lacy, I attempt to be biblical in my answers. Sometime I don't always get things right. But when the text is plain and simple, I get it.

2. In v.35, Paul tells us that he is addressing how the body is raised. Along the way, he uses these metaphors to drive his point home.