Originally posted by post-it:
Like SheEagle911 had said, that's a big jump. You are comparing oranges to apples. There is nothing wrong with repairing and healing the body.
Here your theology is way off base! For only Jesus Christ can heal the soul and mind, through salvation, He gave us, with His life!
Using your logic: If cloning were in Jesus' day, I suppose the Apostles would have had Jesus cloned, instead of the resurrection!
I don't know about the Catholics and the Protestants, but I'm a Baptist! BIG DIFFERENCE! We were here first!
They are a bad imatation!
No Thank You, they give me the creeps!
"It is always better to stand up for conservatism, then to fall into liberalism" Justified Version
[ August 14, 2002, 06:57 PM: Message edited by: Justified ]
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OK, think this thru before you answer....Human Cloning.
- Thread starter LadyEagle
- Start date
I am saying, that it's not the same thing as your finger getting cut off, or an organ transplant, or blood transfusion or anything like that.
Man is trying to create life, and that is a very dangerous place to be.
"It is always better to stand up for conservatism, then to fall into liberalism" Justified Version
I'm sorry, I missed that news story, did you say man was trying to create "life". That would mean that he is taking something without life (something dead) and making it come to life. Are you saying that a woman’s egg is dead before the cloning?Originally posted by Justified:
Man is trying to create life, and that is a very dangerous place to be.
Justified Version
Is what you really mean to say is that doctors can manipulate living tissue at earlier and earlier points in the "life cycle" of a human and since you don't know how a spirit starts and links with a human, it scares you. You are afraid that a life can somehow start without a spirit connecting to that body.
It is from ignorance on what the facts are that leads to questions that can't be answered. So rather than take a risk of creating a person with no soul, you would rather let them die. A form of abortion in that if a life can be brought into existence using cloning, then choosing not to clone will in effect prevent the birth of someone that could and would be born.
So how do you know that it is not God's will that thousands more people be born into existence through this means?
Others here have made the argument that there are plenty of babies to be adopted out, but that still fails to address the point that you are preventing babies who have a right to be born and will be born if allowed by the church. It's not the Government that is preventing these children from being born, it is the church. It is the Church that is performing a mass abortion and trying to say it is God's will with no scriptural evidence to back it up.
What is the difference between a young mother who fears the birth of her baby and decides to abort and the church who fears the birth of cloned babies and decides to abort?
[ August 15, 2002, 12:03 AM: Message edited by: post-it ]
Post-it, WAKE UP!
We KNOW what cloning does! Did you read the article I quoted? It is one of many that have come out. Test tube babies are entirely different. They have complete cellular histories that are normal. A cloned baby has a 99.9% chance of having major physical problems in the future, and that is just talking about the one they allow to live!
This is NOT something that should be done! We KNOW that the genetics of a cell is linked to the cell itself in ways we don't understand.
They are not playing God, actually, they are playing devil. They are messing with things no one knows enough about, and what we do know from animals is almost all negative.
This is not the same as a test tube baby in a million years.
Except, of course, for the fact that in order for one to live, many more will die...
That part's the same.
We KNOW what cloning does! Did you read the article I quoted? It is one of many that have come out. Test tube babies are entirely different. They have complete cellular histories that are normal. A cloned baby has a 99.9% chance of having major physical problems in the future, and that is just talking about the one they allow to live!
This is NOT something that should be done! We KNOW that the genetics of a cell is linked to the cell itself in ways we don't understand.
They are not playing God, actually, they are playing devil. They are messing with things no one knows enough about, and what we do know from animals is almost all negative.
This is not the same as a test tube baby in a million years.
Except, of course, for the fact that in order for one to live, many more will die...
That part's the same.
Helen, I am awake. You quote me facts that say “right now” that cloned babies will not survive or will be born to horrible abnormalities. Yet, none of my arguments are for cloning deformed babies. I am arguing for the continued research and development in the science of cloning. Let medicine develop itself to the point where they can produce healthy babies and then start cloning in mass. So is your only argument for not allowing cloning because of birth defects (which could be solved soon)? If it is then you and I agree that cloning is worth pursuing since it can result in good things in the near future… such as babies and families.
PS From your post it seems as though you would agree to abort deformed babies or babies that would be born only to die later in life or have some other possible affliction. This seems to contradict your view on abortion for these very reasons.
With your science background it doesn’t seem right to hear from you that science should quit something just because they haven’t worked out the bugs yet. How do you expect them to correct it? Do you use this same “preventive research” when seeking answers to problems in other matters?
I guess you missed my earlier post where I listed the same argument you just made for Test Tube babies back in the 70's. And you further used the term "but this is different". I showed some quotes where the people back then used your exact argument about test tube babies but they were proved wrong. History has a way of repeating itself.
[ August 15, 2002, 01:05 AM: Message edited by: post-it ]
PS From your post it seems as though you would agree to abort deformed babies or babies that would be born only to die later in life or have some other possible affliction. This seems to contradict your view on abortion for these very reasons.
With your science background it doesn’t seem right to hear from you that science should quit something just because they haven’t worked out the bugs yet. How do you expect them to correct it? Do you use this same “preventive research” when seeking answers to problems in other matters?
I guess you missed my earlier post where I listed the same argument you just made for Test Tube babies back in the 70's. And you further used the term "but this is different". I showed some quotes where the people back then used your exact argument about test tube babies but they were proved wrong. History has a way of repeating itself.
[ August 15, 2002, 01:05 AM: Message edited by: post-it ]
Post-it, I told you WHY it is different genetically.
Second, I am against abortion -- don't put words in my mouth.
Third, attempts at human cloning are immoral and unethical considering what is known (and not known) about cloning mammals in other mammals. If they want to continue further research, which I have no doubt they will, it should not be on humans. Period.
Second, I am against abortion -- don't put words in my mouth.
Third, attempts at human cloning are immoral and unethical considering what is known (and not known) about cloning mammals in other mammals. If they want to continue further research, which I have no doubt they will, it should not be on humans. Period.
I want to post a reply, but I am so blown away by the couple's statements in that interview, that I have been rendered (nearly, but not quite) speechless.
God may want them to have children, but they will have to try harder to convince me that this is how He wants them to do it. If He wants them to have children, He would do for them as He has for so many who "couldn't"- see Sarah and Abraham for first documented example. That said, I do not feel that I am qualified to say it is wrong to take advantage of science. If we disapprove of cloning, must we also disapprove of other in-vitro fertilizations? Isn't that also man trying to be God?
No one can ever convince me that babies are disposable - that they should be aborted if they are not deemed perfect. And exactly who decides what perfect is? God does - He knit us in the womb, and God does no less than perfect work.
Who are we to say that any person who was not concieved "naturally" is less than human? I don't like that suggestion at all. Now you are opening the door to a whole new kind of prejudice, and it's ugly. Should we open everyone's medical records to the public, to better judge who is human and who isn't?
This is definitely going to be on my prayer list for a long time.
God may want them to have children, but they will have to try harder to convince me that this is how He wants them to do it. If He wants them to have children, He would do for them as He has for so many who "couldn't"- see Sarah and Abraham for first documented example. That said, I do not feel that I am qualified to say it is wrong to take advantage of science. If we disapprove of cloning, must we also disapprove of other in-vitro fertilizations? Isn't that also man trying to be God?
No one can ever convince me that babies are disposable - that they should be aborted if they are not deemed perfect. And exactly who decides what perfect is? God does - He knit us in the womb, and God does no less than perfect work.
Who are we to say that any person who was not concieved "naturally" is less than human? I don't like that suggestion at all. Now you are opening the door to a whole new kind of prejudice, and it's ugly. Should we open everyone's medical records to the public, to better judge who is human and who isn't?
This is definitely going to be on my prayer list for a long time.
Quote:
Man is trying to create life, and that is a very dangerous place to be.
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Remember Babel? Man started getting too big for their britches then, too. Look what God did. I feel like he will do something about it before it goes too far, but again, I do NOT agree with it and will work VERY hard to prevent it.
Man is trying to create life, and that is a very dangerous place to be.
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Remember Babel? Man started getting too big for their britches then, too. Look what God did. I feel like he will do something about it before it goes too far, but again, I do NOT agree with it and will work VERY hard to prevent it.