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Okay, so what did Judge Roy Moore do wrong...

L

LadyEagle

<b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>
Originally posted by TisHerself:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by KenH:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Pronto:
How does our Republic require a Christian base?
Click to expand...
Our nation was founded on Christian principles. </font>[/QUOTE]No, it wasn't. It was founded on a separation of church and state rule. England was forcing their religious beliefs upon people and those who fled were in protest of that. I have some quotes by Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin and George Washington that would curl your hair;)

"Our civil rights have no dependence on our religious opinions, any more than our opinions in physics or geometry" - Thomas Jefferson


Now you are stomping on my family's history! My 11th great-grandmother was Mary Chilton, a young girl who was said to be the first woman to set foot on ground at Plymouth Rock. I know whereof I speak on this one as surely as I know my own name. </font>[/QUOTE]If that's the case then, you should be familiar with the Mayflower Compact.

THE MAYFLOWER COMPACT

"In the name of God, Amen. We, whose names are underwritten, the Loyal Subjects of our dread Sovereign Lord, King James, by the Grace of God, of England, France and Ireland, King, Defender of the Faith, e&.Having undertaken for the Glory of God, and Advancement of the Christian Faith, and the Honour of our King and Country, a voyage to plant the first colony in the northern parts of Virginia; do by these presents, solemnly and mutually in the Presence of God and one of another, covenant and combine ourselves together into a civil Body Politick, for our better Ordering and Preservation, and Furtherance of the Ends aforesaid; And by Virtue hereof to enact, constitute, and frame, such just and equal Laws, Ordinances, Acts, Constitutions and Offices, from time to time, as shall be thought most meet and convenient for the General good of the Colony; unto which we promise all due submission and obedience.In Witness whereof we have hereunto subscribed our names at Cape Cod the eleventh of November, in the Reign of our Sovereign Lord, King James of England, France and Ireland, the eighteenth, and of Scotland the fifty-fourth. Anno Domini, 1620."
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Source - Internet
 
J

Johnv

New Member
The Mayflower Compact did not found a new country. They intended only to found a new colony, in the existing country of England. The puritans were a separatist group of the Anglican faith. They were persecuted for their separatist beliefs, and intended to found a colony where they would practice their faith without oppression.

Interestingly, we give much credence to the Pilgrims for being the first settlers (1620) even though the colonial settlements of New Amsterdam and Jamestown preceded them by several years. I'm not sure why, as I'm not a history buff. Perhaps someone else could answer that question.
 
T

TisHerself

Guest
Originally posted by LadyEagle:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by TisHerself:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by KenH:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Pronto:
How does our Republic require a Christian base?
Click to expand...
Our nation was founded on Christian principles. </font>[/QUOTE]No, it wasn't. It was founded on a separation of church and state rule. England was forcing their religious beliefs upon people and those who fled were in protest of that. I have some quotes by Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin and George Washington that would curl your hair;)

"Our civil rights have no dependence on our religious opinions, any more than our opinions in physics or geometry" - Thomas Jefferson


Now you are stomping on my family's history! My 11th great-grandmother was Mary Chilton, a young girl who was said to be the first woman to set foot on ground at Plymouth Rock. I know whereof I speak on this one as surely as I know my own name. </font>[/QUOTE]If that's the case then, you should be familiar with the Mayflower Compact.

THE MAYFLOWER COMPACT

"In the name of God, Amen. We, whose names are underwritten, the Loyal Subjects of our dread Sovereign Lord, King James, by the Grace of God, of England, France and Ireland, King, Defender of the Faith, e&.Having undertaken for the Glory of God, and Advancement of the Christian Faith, and the Honour of our King and Country, a voyage to plant the first colony in the northern parts of Virginia; do by these presents, solemnly and mutually in the Presence of God and one of another, covenant and combine ourselves together into a civil Body Politick, for our better Ordering and Preservation, and Furtherance of the Ends aforesaid; And by Virtue hereof to enact, constitute, and frame, such just and equal Laws, Ordinances, Acts, Constitutions and Offices, from time to time, as shall be thought most meet and convenient for the General good of the Colony; unto which we promise all due submission and obedience.In Witness whereof we have hereunto subscribed our names at Cape Cod the eleventh of November, in the Reign of our Sovereign Lord, King James of England, France and Ireland, the eighteenth, and of Scotland the fifty-fourth. Anno Domini, 1620."
Click to expand...
Source - Internet </font>[/QUOTE]Very familiar, indeed. But that is for the Colonies. We are the United States of America now and we have a separate constitution that has nothing to do with what was decided by the people of the Mayflower.

"Our civil rights have no dependence on our religious opinions, any more than our opinions in physics or geometry" - Thomas Jefferson
 
T

TisHerself

Guest
Originally posted by Johnv:
The Mayflower Compact did not found a new country. They intended only to found a new colony, in the existing country of England. The puritans were a separatist group of the Anglican faith. They were persecuted for their separatist beliefs, and intended to found a colony where they would practice their faith without oppression.

Interestingly, we give much credence to the Pilgrims for being the first settlers (1620) even though the colonial settlements of New Amsterdam and Jamestown preceded them by several years. I'm not sure why, as I'm not a history buff. Perhaps someone else could answer that question.
Click to expand...
Ahhh yes, they went against the grain, didn't they Johnv?
The non-lock step mentality must be in my genes:)

I'm not sure why the Pilgrims were given the honor instead of the settlers you mentioned. But I'm betting there were political reasons;)
 
L

LadyEagle

<b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>
Very familiar, indeed. But that is for the Colonies.
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Wait a minute.

You brought up the subject of Plymouth Rock and stomping on your family's history to "prove" your side of the debate. Clearly, as we can see from the Mayflower Compact, the Plymouth Rock colony was founded on Christian principles. So once you concede that bringing up Plymouth Rock was a death blow to proving your side of this debate, we can move on to the Founding Fathers. Please proceed to curl our hair with quotes from the Founding Fathers.


But allow me to introduce this: Whether or not you provide any quotes to curl our hair, our side can produce quotes to curl yours.

The point remains, the FF brought with them a rich Judeo-Christian heritage, not Buddhist, not Native American, not Islam, not Shintoism, but a Judeo-Christian heritage and values which were based in part on the 10 Commandments. They came here for religious freedom, not to free themselves from religion.
 
T

TisHerself

Guest
Originally posted by LadyEagle:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Very familiar, indeed. But that is for the Colonies.
Click to expand...
Wait a minute.

You brought up the subject of Plymouth Rock and stomping on your family's history to "prove" your side of the debate. Clearly, as we can see from the Mayflower Compact, the Plymouth Rock colony was founded on Christian principles. So once you concede that bringing up Plymouth Rock was a death blow to proving your side of this debate, we can move on to the Founding Fathers. Please proceed to curl our hair with quotes from the Founding Fathers.


But allow me to introduce this: Whether or not you provide any quotes to curl our hair, our side can produce quotes to curl yours.

The point remains, the FF brought with them a rich Judeo-Christian heritage, not Buddhist, not Native American, not Islam, not Shintoism, but a Judeo-Christian heritage and values which were based in part on the 10 Commandments. They came here for religious freedom, not to free themselves from religion.
</font>[/QUOTE]WHOA! You wait a minute! If you recall, someone said we were a country based on Christian principles! No it wasn't! In fact, the founding fathers of THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA had some rather rough things to say about Christians! Yes, the Christians were among the first here and the Mayflower folk (for the most part) had strong religious beliefs, but other than a few one nation under God deals, where in the Constitution does it say we are a Christian nation? And furthermore, how Christian was it to tromp all over the American Indians and STEAL their land from them? Kill their buffalo, which was their main source of food? Kill them, their families, their children? How is that basing our nation on Christian principles? And what about the slaves???? George Washington, along with most of the signers of the Constitution, owned SLAVES!

And excuse me once again, but unless you ARE NOT on God's side, then we are on the SAME side! Just because we don't agree on a few things doesn't mean we aren't on the same side! Did Jesus always agree with all of his disciples?
 
L

LadyEagle

<b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>
Wow, I see a lot of red herrings in your post. The old bait and switch technique, LOL.

You brought up Plymouth Rock, as I stated. Plymouth Rock was not a good example to invoke to prove your previous point.
 
B

Baptist in Richmond

Active Member
Originally posted by Johnv:
Interestingly, we give much credence to the Pilgrims for being the first settlers (1620) even though the colonial settlements of New Amsterdam and Jamestown preceded them by several years. I'm not sure why, as I'm not a history buff. Perhaps someone else could answer that question.
Click to expand...
That is funny that you should mention that. When I am in Richmond for the weekend, I usually go down to Jamestowne Island for a bike ride. I was listening to a particularly riveting narrative given by one of the rangers, and he theorizes that the reason Plymouth is given so much more attention is the fact that they were fleeing persecution. Jamestowne was established for one reason: "FOR PROFIT." [Capitals used to imply a bellowing sound - not shouting :)]

God's Best to you and your family,
BiR
 
B

Baptist in Richmond

Active Member
Originally posted by Johnv:
Interestingly, we give much credence to the Pilgrims for being the first settlers (1620) even though the colonial settlements of New Amsterdam and Jamestown preceded them by several years. I'm not sure why, as I'm not a history buff. Perhaps someone else could answer that question.
Click to expand...
That is funny that you should mention that. When I am in Richmond for the weekend, I usually go down to Jamestowne Island for a bike ride. I was listening to a particularly riveting narrative given by one of the rangers, and he theorizes that the reason Plymouth is given so much more attention is the fact that they were fleeing persecution. Jamestowne was established for one reason: "FOR PROFIT." [Capitals used to imply a bellowing sound - not shouting :)]

God's Best to you and your family,
BiR
 
KenH

KenH

Well-Known Member
The United States of America was indeed founded on Christian principles, and all of the foot stomping and whining and historical revisionism by liberals will never, ever change that fact.
 
A

Alcott

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
And furthermore, how Christian was it to tromp all over the American Indians and STEAL their land from them? Kill their buffalo, which was their main source of food?
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From your point of view, that should have been the right thing to do, since Indian tribes did not separate government from religion. We had to show them they were wrong; right?

BTW, on tribal lands today there are schools and other establishments which receive public funds. Do they teach native religions, their creation stories, et al?
 
KenH

KenH

Well-Known Member
You know, a State being able to outlaw abortion if the people of the State wich to do so. Stuff like that, BiR.
 
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