Old dead theologians

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

I have read a lot of his work as well. I was blessed by Practical Religion.

I found a hard copy of The Bishop, the Pastor, and the Preacher which I think only had one printing. I found it on Google Books, PDFed it, and formatted it for Kindle. (Did we talk about this before ?) If not and you are interested message me.

 

[Iconoclast]

I can't believe it. Someone has given a dumb to my Spurgeon quote. C.H.S. was being very reasonable, therefore he must be penalized. But, since C.H.S. can't bear the punishment --I must bear the consequences. I am Spurgeon's proxy. I guess that's how it works in the thinking of someone.

Such a person cannot enter into any form of solid theology. They have fed on the husks of false teaching for so long ,and have no appetite for sheep food.
These kind of persons will accuse you and others of being Pharisees , or immature, or any other name because they have an aversion to true doctrine.
They consider it a dirty word.
Thanks for posting that solid quote which must have been like a silver bullet to that ornery poster.
Good theology, good quotes based solidly on biblical principles are light to dispel the error and darkness that many have been infected with.

 

[agedman]

if the wheel is warped, you need a different one. and the warping came long, long ago.

but if a guy only knows warped, he doesn't know it's warped.....

he unwittingly embraces error, stands at odds with scripture, and has a doctrine built on philosophy and superstition while simultaneously pretending to embrace Sola Scriptura.

JamesL,

I would agree. In another thread on WWII, the theology taught for hundreds of years was wrongly racist and allowed for the endorsement of the Nazi thinking.

When one reads "dead theologians" one must always remember to hold the Scriptures as supreme, and sift everything through the Scriptures. I enjoy the careful choice of terms used by men such as Jonathan Edwards - no doubt. Most are certainly a challenge to the intellect, and why (imo) some would not engage in reading them.

I was alarmed when I found that some renown members of the BB have never read the only writing ( a short letter to the Philippians) of one of the greatest theologians that ever lived - Polycarp.

Dead theologians are not to be ignored, but neither should they be held unaccountable to the truth of Scriptures.

 

[Iconoclast]

I'm glad you mentioned J.C. Ryle. I periodically relate how valuable his Christian Leaders of the 18th Century is.

In the last decade of the twentieth century I read Ryle a lot. It initially started by a recommendation by DMLJ to read Ryle. I need to get refreshed by him again.

So I read and appreciated Holiness which you also highly regard.
Knots Untied
Expository Thoughts on the Gospels
Practical Religion
Old Paths
Warnings to the Churches
Five English Reformers
I have read them all --but they're due for a re-read.
All of the above are packed away in America. But, thankfully, I can access some of his material on the internet. My former pastor used to say "Ryle is 95% pure gold."

Just to let some of you know --he was an Anglican bishop, but very evangelical. He and Spurgeon were of one heart for the Lord. And I say that knowing full well how much C.H.S. strove against the Church of England.

Ryle started his last and most famous pastorate at 64 years of age. At that time he became the Bishop of Liverpool and made friends with another fervent evangelical --Richard Hobson.

He died on June 10th,1900 --at age 84. DML-J was barely six months at the time.

When I read Ryle it's like a dad talking to his son. He "speaks" clearly and with love and conviction. I hope others here will look him up. You'll be blessed and learn a thing or three in the process.

Yes....I could re-read some Ryle soon. I had Mrs clast refer to his writing on the gospel of John the other day.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

This is not an either/or situation. We all hold to the absolute authority and truth of the word of God. It needs nothing but the Holy Spirit.

Every ODT was a fallible sinner - they knew it, and that is part of what encourages me. As fellow saved sinners they have lived things I have not lived. God blessed many of them with great teaching ability and we can benefit from that teaching.

No one is saying that these men verify the word of God, but that doesn't mean we cannot learn from them.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

True, but it takes a bit of study to figure out what is warped and what isn't. Otherwise to use yet another cliche, you're throwing the baby out with the bath water.
That's different than assuming because the wheel is over ten years old, it's warped.

if the wheel is warped, you need a different one. and the warping came long, long ago.

but if a guy only knows warped, he doesn't know it's warped.....

he unwittingly embraces error, stands at odds with scripture, and has a doctrine built on philosophy and superstition while simultaneously pretending to embrace Sola Scriptura.

 

[JamesL]

True, but it takes a bit of study to figure out what is warped and what isn't......
That's different than assuming because the wheel is over ten years old, it's warped.

I agree. But I'm curious, how many people here spend time studying old dead Roman Catholic theologians, old dead Orthodox theologians, old dead Pentecostal theologians, etc

 

[JamesL]

I was alarmed when I found that some renown members of the BB have never read the only writing ( a short letter to the Philippians) of one of the greatest theologians that ever lived - Polycarp.

I've read as many 1st-2nd century Christians as I know to be available, and couldn't agree more. For most, reading an old dead theologian means reading the most popular guys from a particular theological camp.

that's why I asked how many here have read RCC, Orthodox and Pentecostal theologians.

I would venture to say that most who are idolizing the dead guys, probably view those from a different perspective as completely irrelevant.

I wonder how many have ever been amazed at how much the Catechism of the Catholic Church speaks of grace. More so than any 500y.o. Protestant writings, imo.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

that's why I asked how many here have read RCC, Orthodox and Pentecostal theologians.

I would venture to say that most who are idolizing the dead guys, probably view those from a different perspective as completely irrelevant.

I think 'idolizing' is a pretty harsh assessment. I can't recall any idolatry of any ODT.

The only Catholic ODT I have read extensively is G.K. Chesteron and am blessed by what I find. Could you suggest some Orthodox or Pentecostal ODTs that I might find of interest or edifying in their teaching? I am always willing to expand my reading.

 

[Rippon]

I would venture to say that most who are idolizing the dead guys,

Choose your verbs carefully. These are more suitable: respect,admire,appreciate and value.

 

[Rippon]

I was alarmed when I found that some renown members of the BB have never read the only writing ( a short letter to the Philippians) of one of the greatest theologians that ever lived - Polycarp.

Why in the world would that in particular "alarm" you? I find that a strange statement.

I would be alarmed if someone had not read the book of Habakkuk, for instance.

Why would you consider Polycarp "one of the greatest theologians " who ever lived? Aren't there a host of others who far exceeded him in that regard? There are only 63 verses from which to base his theological knowledge.

 

[Jkdbuck76]

I think 'idolizing' is a pretty harsh assessment. I can't recall any idolatry of any ODT.

The only Catholic ODT I have read extensively is G.K. Chesteron and am blessed by what I find. Could you suggest some Orthodox or Pentecostal ODTs that I might find of interest or edifying in their teaching? I am always willing to expand my reading.

There are only THREE "doctors of the Church" in Eastern Orthodoxy.

Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk

 

[TCassidy]

Much of the doctrine we hold to today is a result of the theological heavy lifting that began during the Reformation.

I disagree. The faith of the reformers was not only bible based but reflected the teachings of the Patristics from the first 3 or 4 centuries AD.

We can find all the so-called "reformed" doctrines in the wrings of the Patristics.

Ignatius, Polycarp, Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Clement of Alexandria, Tertullian, Cyprian,
Athanasius, and even Jerome, and, of course, Augustine.

Had it not been for the writings of these Patristics there would have been no reformation.

 

[TCassidy]

You may disagree, but look what you are disagreeing with!

Jude 3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

 

[JamesL]

Choose your verbs carefully. These are more suitable: respect,admire,appreciate and value.

That's downright funny......

transitive verb: to worship as a god
broadly: to love or admire to excess

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

That's downright funny......

Could you kindly give an example of where a poster here as loving or admiring one of the ODTs to excess please? If I am guilty of being perceived that way I would like to apologise. I certainly don't mean to idolise any man, living or dead.

 

[JamesL]

C4K,
not at all you, and maybe no specific examples

But most certainly a general tone. I can't count the number of times I've been reading a thread, and in a perfect spot to expect to see "scripture says..." instead I'll see what Spurgeon said.

and it's not just here and there, it reaches epidemic proportions. So much so, that if I never see another Spurgeon quote for the rest of my life I will have still seen too many for one lifetime. And it's not just Spurgeon, but he's probably the most idolized.

for real, it's on par with Seventh Day Adventists quoting Ellen White, Jehovah's Witnesses quoting the Watchtower, etc

plus, I just thought it was funny and ironic that Rippon suggested idolize is wrong, admire is better, but "admire to excess" is a listed definition of idolize...and perfectly sums it up

 

[Rippon]

That's downright funny......

Maybe I can be charged with having a poor sense of humor, but I fail to see anything funny with what you cited. I can't rightly be accused with loving or admiring deceased brothers in the Lord to excess. And in this thread I acknowledged that it has been a while since I have delved into J.C. Ryle's works. But it is certainly a truth that he was raised up by the Lord. Bishop Ryle was a godly man used as a valuable instrument for his age and beyond --like so many others I could mention.

 

[Rippon]

C4K,
not at all you, and maybe no specific examples

Ah ha!

I just thought it was funny and ironic that Rippon suggested idolize is wrong,

Permit me to be blunt : you are very wrong to charge me with that.

admire is better, but "admire to excess" is a listed definition of idolize...and perfectly sums it up

The common uderstanding of the words admire, respect, and value are understood by most people. You are the exception.

 

[Rippon]

The faith of the reformers was not only bible based but reflected the teachings of the Patristics from the first 3 or 4 centuries AD.

We can find all the so-called "reformed" doctrines in the writings of the Patristics.

Ignatius, Polycarp, Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Clement of Alexandria, Tertullian, Cyprian,
Athanasius, and even Jerome, and, of course, Augustine.

You can add Hilary of Potiers (300-368), and John Chrysostom (347-407).

I would place Jerome, but especially Augustine, as 5th century men primarily. The last third of their lives were the most significant.

Had it not been for the writings of these Patristics there would have been no reformation.

I agree.