Old Regular Baptist Website

[Brother Bob]

http://webpages.charter.net/screamingeagles/Old Regular Baptist Song Books/index

Here is a link to a my web site where you can see the book and all the information for ordering. You have to copy entire url and paste it in the address. Just clicking on the url doesn't work for some reason.

 

[Brother Bob]

Originally posted by rlvaughn:
I worked on the link to make it "clickable".

Old Regular Baptist Song Book

Elder Scott, could you tell us a little more about your song book -- how many pages/songs? how much use compared to Thomas and the Sweet Songster? Does it have a lot of the same songs as those? Anything else you might think of. Thanks.

 

[Brother Bob]

Thank you so much for making My Web Site clickable

http://webpages.charter.net/screamingeagles/Old%20Regular%20Baptist%20Song%20Books/

 

[Brother Bob]

Also this book is used by The Old Regular Baptist, The Primitive Baptist, The United Baptist and many more who just want the lyrics to the old time songs. I sell books mostly up and down the east coast of the United States and have sold thousand over the years. I personally don't get out much around the Associations to sell the books but spend a couple of hours each year at some Associations. I would rather be inside so I sell mostly by orders. I published the book because when I started there was no one in this area that sold a book and we had a hard time finding the Sweet Songster, Thomas Hymns and The New Baptist Song Book sold by Brother CB Smith and published by someone in the Freewills I am told but do not know for sure. I do it just to be a service to my fellow brethren and sisters.
Elder Bobby Scott Sr

 

[Brother Bob]

 

[Frogman]

Dear Brother Bob,
Not all Primitive Baptists believe in absolute predestination. Although all Primitive Baptists that I have known of do believe in the Biblical position of particular redemption.

To answer a question by Brother James Reed as to whether there are any other doctrinal differences, that would be one, I think. He can correct me if I am in error, or any Old Regular Brother may do likewise.

However, when I read the website's articles of faith, the following stuck out to me as at least questionable in regards to being in agreement doctrinally with Primitive Baptists:

16. None of the above articles shall be construed as to hold with particular election or reprobation as to make God partial directly or indirectly so as to injure children of man.

If this above means the Old Regular's generally reject two-seedism; which I think can be at least read into the statement, then it is in line with Most Primitive Baptists. If however it also means, and I think it does mean exactly what it says, that this association of Old Regular Baptists reject particular redemption, then this would be a major point of difference between themselves and Primitive Baptists.

The above statement is also an implication that Old Regulars of this association reject absolutism, which is in agreement with historic and current Primitive Baptist faith and order.

Absolutism, though some may disagree is a derivative of Stoic philosophy of which the Apostle Paul contended with and against. The point of difference I think, if I am reading correctly is only that over particular redemption.

May God Bless,
Bro. Dallas Eaton

 

[Brother Bob]

Dear Brother Dallas Eaton,

Particular redemption, or prechosen for Heaven or Hell was the big difference that caused the split back in 1863. We still live among each other and feel that we are brothers and sisters but the doctrine even though it has mellowed over the years is still there on both sides. Most all on here are calling me a Free-will but I wonder if they really know the difference between the Freewills and The Old Regular Baptist, I doubt it. It doesn't offend me I just chuckle for if my brothers and sisters knew they were being called Freewills they would take it to heart but as for me I have enjoyed my discussion on here. We do still believe that time and chance has happened to all or that Christ died for all.

 

[Frogman]

Dear Brother Bob,
Be assured there are those of the Primitive Baptist faith and order who are along side you called 'free-wills' or arminians.

I do not know that I know what you are referring to believing; however from what I have studied of Regular Baptists in Ky. history they were of little difference from the PB.

As far as the split in 1863, I don't remember reading about that division. Was it a division of Old Regulars and Primitives?

I know of the New School and Old School split in 1832.

Just that you may know, I am recently coming out from the Landmark Missionary Baptists to the Old Line Primitives.

For several reasons, but the main I will list here:

The Landmark Missionary Baptists believe in gospel regeneration; I do not, Primitive Baptists do not.

The Landmark Missionary Baptists, though predominantly Calvinistic, believe that all the elect has in time and will continue as long as the world does, to hear the gospel and repent and believe. I do not believe this, Primitive Baptists do not.

Some, but certainly NOT ALL Landmark Missionary Baptists are embracing absolutism as you allude above some among the Primitives did likewise; which teaches that God is the first cause of all things; including the sin of the creature; that all the elect will hear and believe the gospel; and therefore all the elect will be converted (these last two points are among LMB's, I don't know about absoluter Primitives, but I would doubt they would fellowship with this belief, but, and unless I am reading some wrong, and if I am I beg forgiveness, some are aligning with these points subtly). I do not agreee with any of these and Primitive Baptists do not agree with these.

Primitive Baptists are generally, but not always amelennial.

For the most part I have found I am in agreement with what Primitive Baptists believe, so finding this to be what is in my heart, I have decided to move. I will experience baptism into the membership of the Barren County Primitive Baptist church this Saturday at or around 2:00pm. Please remember this, myself and the church in your prayers.

As far as being called free-will or arminian, some, but not all my former LMB acquaintenances are convinced I am either or, or even antinomian some have said because I have rejected their tendency toward absolutism.

I wonder if your statement above is not referring to two-seedism, which is a heresy closely related to absolute predestination of all things that come to pass. I wonder this because you speak of double predestination. Primitives, on the whole, do not believe that and historically have not believed it. Instead we believe the redeemed were chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world; but all who are redeemed were chosen from out of the fallen race of Adam.

I have been six years among the LMB's and growing all that time more toward the Primitives. I could no longer preach what I was not believing myself.

Primitive Baptists have always believed salvation (eternal life) is wholly by grace but that there are many different experiences of salvation which are deliverances in time based on our obedience/losses based upon our disobedience. Therefore, others who believe the Absolute Predestination of all things will 'call' us arminians because of the belief of conditional time salvation. The conditional salvation being our knowing to do good and doing it as a child who hears, is given to understand and does. Some are afraid of the word 'conditional' but I see it as what really helped me to understand their points.


I hope the Lord will greatly bless you dear brother in all your life and service to Him,

Bro. Dallas Eaton

 

[Brother Bob]

Brother Eaton,

I pray the Lord will bless you in whatever you decide. I think the Primitive in this area are more absolute than the ones you are aquainted with. I have heard them preach that there would be babies in Hell no bigger than the span of your hand. I was accused of telling false when I stated that on here because I was told that John Wesley stated that in some of his writings but I didn't know. I heard it myself so I am not speaking from someone else. As I said the years have mellowed all of us down some and I have not heard them preach it since I was young. I am very close to all of the Primitive here and they to me. I am sending you the minutes of the split so you can read them for yourself by pm.

 

[Frogman]

Dear Brother Bob,
Thank you for the pm. I do know that there are Primitive Baptists who differ in some aspects of their faith and practice.

I have come to peace with the conviction that among the Old Line Primitive Baptists is where I should be worshipping.

I have no ill feeling toward anyone of among the Sovereign Grace Landmark Missionary Baptists; nor any other groups identifying themselves as Primitive Baptists even though I differ with these in regards to absolute predestination of all things.

I only know that I do not believe it and that as far as I am able to understand historically, Primitive Baptists did not believe it.

As I said before, there may be some who would disagree with that, but they will get no argument from myself.

Paul clearly states that we are able to do despite to and to greive the Spirit of Grace that is in us; and he also states that we have received Grace for obedience to the faith among all nations.

Both these statements convince me that we can do no good of ourselves, but only as we abide in Christ. By abiding in Him, we will be found following that Spirit of Grace and not the flesh and thereby we will not grieve that Spirit.

But these are moving us off topic I guess.

Bro. Dallas

 

[rlvaughn]

Originally posted by Frogman:
... and therefore all the elect will be converted (these last two points are among LMB's, I don't know about absoluter Primitives...

Bro. Dallas, some Absolute Predestinarian Primitive Baptists here in Texas believe that all of God's elect will hear and believe the gsopel in this time life (not to be elected, but because they are elected). It is not a matter or test of fellowship with them, as far as I can tell.

Concerning absolute predestination and two-seedism -- they are sometimes connected, but I don't see that there is any necessarily logical connection between the two.

Brother Bob, I would also be interested in the minutes of the 1863 split, if not too much trouble. I would like to understand the matters of division between Primitives and Old Regulars a little better.

 

[Jeff Weaver]

Bro. Dallas

Welcome to the Old Baptist world. Now have they let you preach yet? When they do, come on out to Southwest Virginia, and take some time with us at Tumbling Creek. I'll keep you up all night so you don't have to go to bed hungry.

Jeff Weaver

 

[Frogman]

Originally posted by rlvaughn:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Frogman:
... and therefore all the elect will be converted (these last two points are among LMB's, I don't know about absoluter Primitives...

Bro. Dallas, some Absolute Predestinarian Primitive Baptists here in Texas believe that all of God's elect will hear and believe the gsopel in this time life (not to be elected, but because they are elected). It is not a matter or test of fellowship with them, as far as I can tell.

Concerning absolute predestination and two-seedism -- they are sometimes connected, but I don't see that there is any necessarily logical connection between the two.

Brother Bob, I would also be interested in the minutes of the 1863 split, if not too much trouble. I would like to understand the matters of division between Primitives and Old Regulars a little better. </font>[/QUOTE]Dear Brother Vaughn,
I do know that some of the Absoluter LMB's I was acquainted with through the pastorate in Arkansas encouraged me to join what they called 'old school' Primitives. This is a controversial term however as many who are called 'old liners' and are conditional time salvationists call themselves 'old school'. So, you are correct, there is a move among Primitives toward absolutism.

You are also correct that for the moment it seems there is no test of fellowship over this issue. However, as I made it more and more evident that I disagreed with Absolutism, it did become a test in my situation, which was among LMB's and not PB's.

However, I do know some Primitive Baptist elders who cordially discuss and fellowship with absoluters, but who believe it is impossible for absoluters and conditional time salvationists to truly fellowship. When one understands the two teachings independently, this is very likely a true observation.

Absolutism, as I understand it, would logically lead to the teaching that all the elect will hear and will be converted. From the best of my ability to understand Primitive Baptist Faith and practice historically and scripturally, this has never been a true item of faith among them.

I believe, and I may be corrected by you or Brother Jeff or others if I am in error, conditional time salvation rejects absolutism on this ground, that God has neither ordained the obedience nor the disobedience of the creature, including the redeemed. This means then that even among those who do hear, there is no guarantee they will obey according to the Biblical gospel. In most cases today they will likely not even hear the Biblical gospel.

Bro. Dallas

 

[Frogman]

Originally posted by Jeff Weaver:
Bro. Dallas

Welcome to the Old Baptist world. Now have they let you preach yet? When they do, come on out to Southwest Virginia, and take some time with us at Tumbling Creek. I'll keep you up all night so you don't have to go to bed hungry.

Jeff Weaver

Dear Brother Jeff,
Thanks for the invitation. I have not yet been baptized. I will experience baptism this Saturday, April 1st. At this time I will be truly a member.

Elder Dwight Dyer is the pastor of Barren Co. Primitive Baptist. He is also pastoring Temple PB in or around LaFayette TN. I have visited with Barren co. prior to going to AR. Upon hearing of my leaving there and intention to return to Ky. and join among them some of the members inquired of Elder Dyer (per his statement to me) whether he would invite me to speak.

He explained to me on my first visit with them after our return here that he could not do that. I assured him I did not expect it. I do know that I believe it will occur at some point; but I am coming from a different order and although many Primitive Baptist Elders know me from VA. to CA. and some in TX and AR have met me; there is a necessity to do all things in order, as you know.

One thing that has been instrumental in my taking six years to join the Primitives is that I did not want to come over to them and be either a real or perceived cause of division. I waited, studied and sought firm conviction and confirmation in order that I would not be such a sore upon the churches.

Without saying much, you know there are four points on a compass and there are at least, as near as I can tell three of these points emerging among PB's. There is only one true point, for my part that is what is commonly called Old Liners; they who believe and teach conditional time salvation.

Like it or not there is a move toward calvinism (absolutism) in some places. I cannot identify these places because I have not been there and because I feel I have been too close to calvinism among SGLMB's to truly recognize it in the old baptists. However, I have been contacted by some who are either paranoid or are seeing things that they wanted to warn me against. (on both sides of the coin).

Anyway, as I said, I have joined what I believe to be the biblical and historic Old Baptist position and have left landmarkism altogether, including pre-mil; and pre-trib. rapture.

Much much more to relate in this one post.

Lord willing and I am able, I would love to be able to visit there some day. Pray for me.

Bro. Dallas

 

[Bro. James Reed]

Bro. Dallas,

I find myself in agreement with all that you have posted regarding our position.

Off the top of my head, I can think of only 2 absoluter congregations, one in Grapeland, TX and the other in Merryville, LA. If I am not mistaken, absolutism is much more prevalent in the north and east, and always has been, at least, more so than here.

Don't forget us down here in Texas, Bro. Dallas. You are always welcome. I've always thought of you as just another Old Baptist.

God bless.

Bro. James

P.S. Since I can't be there in person on Saturday, I will be there in spirit. I'm praying for you, brother.

 

[old regular]

Old Regular's generally believe that life begins at the begotting,or quickening when the dead hear the voice of the Son of God and live,this is also refered to as the hearing of faith where by the Spirt enters bringing Light and Life to the soul, thus the gift and calling of God is without repentance,you don't repent to obtain the gift you repent because you have the gift of eternal life.The term born again is usually used to describe the place in their travail they were comforted,felt their burdens lifted, they believe there is life at conception but they were not born again to make them a child they were born because they were a child, all part of regeneration.All Primitive Baptist don't use wine in communion, all Old Regular Baptist don't use grape juice.Old Regular and Primitive Baptist are different factions of the same body.They split over absolute predestination and actual eternal vital union a doctrine that started in the three forks of Powell River association. Elder Slone

 

[Frogman]

Dear Brother Mike,
Not all Primitive Baptists are absolute predestinarians.

Do Regular Baptists generally believe all the elect will experience the travail of being born again and receiving comfort in a timely sense?

Brother James and others may correct me if I am wrong, but, as I am able to understand the differences, if Old Regulars generally believe all the elect will experience this comfort in a timely sense, this would be counted as a major difference among Old Line Primitives and Old Regulars.

This difference would account for the Old Line PB's rejecting the identification or label as Calvinists of any stripe while would also account for their counting Old Regulars as Calvinistic.

This difference alone is very significant for many Old Line PB's. It is considered, I believe to be a distinction between themselves and the absoluter Primitives.

Any comments from my old line PB brethren?

Bro. Dallas

 

[Brother Bob]

Well, I am ORB so I will wait to see what the answer is.

 

[old regular]

ORBs

Brother Dallas, I tried to post a long discourse on this subject and it would not let me post.So to make things short most primitives believe in limited predestination in this day and age.Old regulars would not say all the elect have that type of exprience,seeing they believe that infants that die so, are the elect along with those whom God does not impute sin.They believe all the elect will hear the voice of the Son Of God before they leave this world but not all shall hear the gospel. Bro slone

 

[old regular]

light of Christ divide In ORB

To those brethern trying to figure out the doctrinal divide among ORB and looking for the Historical Position of ORB based on Letters and orders passed by the Union and New Salem. I will try to get that info to you. I also know of eyewittnesses to these events that our still living on both sides of the debate,note all associations did not split over this ,and many retained their Elders on both side to this day.They just let it be, and prefer not to get it stirred.Bro. Slone