Old Regular Baptist

Bro. Slone, is the Kyova Association still in existence? I've been told it isn't, but haven't been able to confirm that. Thanks.

 

That's after they changed the name to be polite. :laugh:

 

I don't think that is the one he was asking about Jeff, this church was established in 1909.


MODERATOR : (20006) ELDER ELMER WOOD .

LITTLE HOPE CHURCH
OF OLD REGULAR BAPTIST OF JESUS CHRIST
CLINTWOOD ,VA.
DIRECTIONS : SR-83 TO CLINTWOOD - LEFT ONTO BRUSHY CREEK ROAD (VA631) AND GO 1 MILE .
MEETING TIME : 1ST SATURDAY AND SUNDAY OF EACH MONTH SATURDAY 9:30 AM - SUNDAY 9:30 AM
ASSOCIATION : UNION ASSOCIATION
ESTABLISHED 1909
UNION MEETING JUNE
COMMUNION MEETING JULY
MEMORIAL MEETING MAY

 

Here is an address where you can order a book with all the pictures of churches, moderators, location of all the churches in the Union, New Salem, Northern New Salem, Sardis, Philedelphia, Old Indian Bottom and Friendship. It is a new book only to the churches but I am sure he would probably sale copies to whoever might want one. His phone number is listed below, you might want to call first but its a great book for all the churches.

I have nothing to do with the book, just passing the info on to others. I personally bought one and its great for those who want to visit us.


PRICE PER BOOK: $25.00 EACH (WE PAY THE SHIPPING )

MAKE ALL CHECKS OR MONEY ORDERS TO :

LITTLE MELROSE OLD REGULAR BAPTIST CHURCH SEND TO :

MELROSE OLD REGULAR BAPTIST CHURCH C/O HANSEL BROWN
8598 SW 56 AVE .RD.
OCALA , FL. 34476
THANK YOU
BROTHER HANSEL BROWN (ASSIST. CLERK) 1-352-861-2722​

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Fellowship Meeting

Brother David, I do not think that they will be recording during that meeting,depends on the groups present, some still don't like to be recorded, others don't mind, still others are afraid if they miss something or quote it wrong, that someone may get upset, but most people know that we preach without notes, etc.... if they record some of the brothers I will try to get you a copy. Brother Slone

 

Brother Mike, I thought this might interest you:

The 102nd Annual Session of the Union Assoication of Old Regular Baptist​

Now in session assembled with the Bethel Church at Jenkins, Kentucky, Letcher Co., September 15, 16, and 17, 1961.

Item 16: Notice the request from the Little Zion and Birchfield Churches:

1. Is the Gospel to be preached to the church only and nobody else?
2. Did the woman touching the Garment of Christ have anything to do with her being made whole?
3. Is there any proof in the Bible to prove that sinners pray for Mercy? It has been preached there is not.
4. Is there any crying before the Spiritual Birth? Or is there just one cry and that a cry for joy after the Spiritual Birth?
5. Are men and women children of God before the foundation of the world? Or in the Travel from Nature to Grace? Or are they the Children of God after they are born by the Spirit of God?
6. We the Little Zion Church ask the Union Association to request all her churches to strictly abide by item 12 in the 1952 minutes.

In answer to the request of Little Zion Church and the Birchfield Church, we as an advisory council say:

In answer to question 1:
We believe the Gospel is the power of God unto Salvation to everyone that believeth to the Jew first and also to the Greek for therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith. And this Gospels shall be preached into all the world for a witness unto all nations and then shall the end come.

In answer to question 2:
We believe touching was putting her faith in action and faith without works is dead being alone. If Naaman the Leper hadn’t dipped in the river Jordan seven times he would not have been made whole. If the children of Israel hadn’t marched around the walls of Jericho seven times the wall wouldn’t have fallen down.

In answer to question 3:
We say that the publican was praying for mercy when he prayed saying “Lord be merciful to me, a sinner.” The thief praying on Calvary’s Hill “Lord remember me when thou comest into thy Kingdom” is positive proof that sinners were praying for mercy.

In answer to question 4:
We believe that men and women cry a sorrowful cry begging and crying for deliverance. We believe after delivered or the spiritual birth, they cry for joy.

In answer to question 5:
Yes. They are the children of God after the spiritual birth.

In answer to question 6:
We as an advisory council say to all the churches in our association to strictly abide by item 12 in the 1952 minutes, which reads as follows:

In answer to the queries from the Old Elkhorn Church we as advisory council say to the Bold Camp Church and to all our churches in this association, if you have any one preaching when the Light of Christ appears to a sinner that it gives him Eternal life or preaching that they are a child of God before they are born again or anything that would cause a sinner to settle down on anything short of Eternal Salvation by grace to ask them to stop preaching it or exclude them from the fellowship of the church. We also advise that our Brethren to preach in accord to our Articles of Faith and to preach so as to give God the glory of our Eternal Salvation.

 

ARTICLES OF FAITH

As taken from the 1961 Union Association of Old Regular Baptist minutes​

1. We believe in one true and living God, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost and these three are one.
2. We believe that the Old and New Testaments Scriptures are the written word of God, and the only rule of faith and practice.
3. We believe in the doctrine of election by grace.
4. We believe in the doctrine of original sin, and man’s impotency to rescue himself from the fallen state he is in by nature by his own free will and ability.
5. We believe that sinners are called, converted, regenerated and sanctified by the Holy Spirit and all are so regenerated and born again by the Spirit of God shall never fall finally away.
6. We believe sinners are justified in the sight of God only by the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ.
7. We believe that baptism, the Lord’s Supper and feet washing are ordinances of Jesus Christ and that true believers are the only proper subjects of these ordinances and we believe the only true mode of baptism is by immersion.
8. We believe in the resurrection of the dead and a general judgment and that the joys of righteous and the punishment of the wicked will be eternal.
9. We believe no minister has the right to administer the ordinances of the Gospel, except such as are regularly called, and come under the imposition of hands by a presbytery of the church.

 

The above Articles of Faith are word-for-word the same as in the 1898 Union Minutes.

 

Item 12

Brother Keith any idea what item 12 was in 1952 minutes, and I would say this would be before the split when the churches came out of union and formed the Bethel association.

 

Item 12
In answer to the queries from the Old Elkhorn Church we as advisory council say to the Bold Camp Church and to all our churches in this association, if you have any one preaching when the Light of Christ appears to a sinner that it gives him Eternal life or preaching that they are a child of God before they are born again or anything that would cause a sinner to settle down on anything short of Eternal Salvation by grace to ask them to stop preaching it or exclude them from the fellowship of the church. We also advise that our Brethren to preach in accord to our Articles of Faith and to preach so as to give God the glory of our Eternal Salvation.

There has been no split since 1961 that I am aware of Bro. Jeremy.

 

Union Association

Brother Keith, I know brothers who were present at the split from both sides and they all said, that the brethern form Bold Camp, were never allowed to answer any charges brought against them, but ever time they would try to speak, a brother sitting by would say he has left his subject make him set down, Brother Fred Charles who was a member of the Union Association and was member after the split and is 92 years old can give you all the details, it may intrest you also, to see that the Union in dimissing the Bold Camp Church without unanimous consent violated their consitution, they tried to reinterpet it after the fact,I think even Howard Dorgan noted this in his book.Also the Indian Bottom recieved some of the same treatment look at item 16 of the constitution of the Union Association, the Union has never changed its Articles of Faith but if you want to know, what they mean the Bible Proofs are on pages 68 to 71 in Rufus Perrigans Book History of the Regular Baptist. Some of the Union brothers wanted to change them, the year they met in Floridia after the split, but were told they would lose their lawsuits if they did.They lost all of them anyway but one in Kentucky and their doctrine was declared the original doctrine of the Old Regular Baptist in all the other cases.The men that caused this trouble left the Union in the end but not before isolating the Mud River Association.I think that going to law before the unjust was wrong on both sides, the majority right or wrong should have obtained the meeting house according to Regular Baptist church government. These wound have never been healed and all involved have suffered greatly. One brother stated he had started out to destroy [what he called hardshells] in the Regular Baptist and near his death stated he destroyed himself.The same brothers tried to present a list to Brother Grady Adkins to do the same thing in New Salem what they did in Union, he scolded them and told them they were wrong and would have no part in it.They never got any further with the New Salem. Brother Mike Slone

 

Kyova Assocaition

The Kyova no longer meets, one church called Bethany is now in the Indian Botton the other remaining churches have never lettered to any other associations as far as I know.I tried to reach one in West Virginia, but was unable, to get in touch with the moderator.The Old Regular Baptist has many churches not lettered to associations all over the U.S.A now, it is very hard to obtain their total numbers , but there is most likely over 500 total members, there are even two that existed in Casey County for years.Some of these churches belonged to an association at one time but ceased to letter for some reason, others of ORB faith moved to different locations and started churches, and being at such a long distance from the large assocition never went into an association and yet others just don't believe that associations should exist. Brother Slone

 

Hi Mike:
Did you get the books I sent to you?

 

Black Song Books

Yes ,thanks Brother Bob for the song books each church in our association now has at least one, some have more than one, your books have also made it to some of the Primitive Baptist and United as well.I did not remember ever meeting with you, but may have years ago in the Philadelphia Association during a Union meeting but I am not sure, there used to be a sister that went to Pleasant View from your home church, she was a Stollings before she married. Brother Mike

 

Yes, there is an Ervin Stollings who is in the Indian Bottom and lived close to Cleveland I think. He lives down around you somewhere now and is still in the Indian Bottom with Keith. I have several of those Stollings sisters and they did visit in Ohio from time to time. They are good people and a very close family. They also had an Uncle who had a place down in Ohio where he lived part of each year and his name was Russell Thacker and was one of my Deacons but has passed since. They used to call me in Philadelphia and I think they have me called back this year after a time of not calling me. I believe I am called this year at Little Mary.

 

The Sister was married to Mike Hunt her name may have been Elaine,Irvin was her brother and belonged @ Northern New Home.Brother Bob have you ever heard of Old Regular Baptist anointing the sick with olive oil? We always thought the oil was the Spirit it seemed to have caused some trouble a few years back in the Thorton Union.Growing up I never saw them use oil. Brother Slone

 

Brother Mike,

I know Brother Milburn Slone of the Indian Bottom does. I've not seen it, but I've heard him preach about it a few times. On the Union split, I don't why they felt that it was needful to ask the world whose doctrine was right. I don't take my car to a doctor to see if it's running right or not. I think you've mentioned the Russell Prater church as the source of this doctrinal split. Since I joined Russell Prater, I am most interested in finding out more about this. Thanks, Keith Deel

 

You have the Stollings right and she at one time belonged at Narrows Branch but left and went somewhere else.

No, we believe in spiritual oil Bro. Mike

 

Brother Mike, please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the Bethel doctrine has always been rejected by the Union Association. Below is the Old Regular and Primitive split of the Union Associaiton. Here is the preamble as it was wrote in the 1898 Union minutes:

PREAMBLE​

Whereas, we, the Regular Baptist churches of Jesus Christ, known as the Union Association, met according to our last year’s appointment with the Mt. Pleasant Church, Dickenson County, VA, on Friday before the 3rd Sat. in Sept. 1894, and finding that some of our brethren had departed from our former constitution and principles of faith. We withdrew from them and appointed our association with the Union Church, Pike Co., KY, to commence on Nov. 16, for the following reasons:
1. Our former Moderator (Lewis Edwards) was not present, and the delegates demanded that a Moderator be chosen by a majority of the members present, which was disregarded, and one of those brethren assumed the place of Moderator, and called on another one of Sandlick Association as Clerk, without being chosen, which was a violation of our constitution.
2. We demanded that our constitution be read, and that the Association be governed by the same, which those brethren refused to do.
3. We, together with the Mt. Pleasant Church, demanded the church house, in which to organize and hold the Association, according to our former custom, which they refused to do, thereby infringing on the internal rights of the church.
We found some of those dissenting brethren, preaching “The absolute pre-destination of all things,” so as to make God the author of all things whatsoever comes to pass, both good and evil; “Total, vital union between Christ and His church before time began; That a certain part of Adam’s race was personally and unconditionally predestinated for Heaven, and the rest individually decreed for Hell, from before the creation of man; personal, limited atonement and irresistible calling of man to salvation.” Which doctrine, we understand to be a departure from our principles of faith, and contrary to the teaching of the Scripture. Finding, after due deliberation, that we could not hold the Association, then and there, the Association adjourned until Friday before the 3rd Saturday Nov., 1894, to meet with the Union Church, Pike Co., KY, which our constitution gives us a right to do (to hold the Union Association), for at the time appointed on last year, when we met, each church could not get a fair representation in the Association.
For the reasons above stated, we, the Union Association, declare a non-fellowship with all churches, or members, who tolerate or teach the above named doctrine.

 

Bethel Split

Bro. Keith,I think they were rebuked by one judge in Virginia, who refused to hear their case. No the Union had approved circular letters with the doctrine that Bethel embraced , also note that what they were accused of and what they preached were not the same thing, this was a case of politics as usual. The Russell Prater Church was the first Regular Baptist Church to preach all men have a measure of faith universal, I think Brother Jimmy Dale Sanders, Bro Dallas Ramsey, Bro Fred Charles could give you a more detailed history on the split.You will find these large associations tried to maintain a position between hyper-calvinism and reformed Arminism and their doctine leaned toward who ever their leader was at the time, if you can find the time try to read all the old circular letters from New Salem and Union and orders passed you will find these to be the case.It would also be noted that the larger associations have ministers who are much more calvinistic and much more arminian than those on the otherside, I know of no brothers on this side that believe in the eternal children doctrine[regeneration before the foundation of the world] they still have a few, also we have none that hold to freewillism, they do. Bro.Slone