Old School Baptist Doctrinal Debates

[old regular]

laying on of hands and oil

I would not make the use of natural oil, a test for fellowship nor a bar to communion.Years ago I was a member of the Little Ellen Church in the New Salem Association, their former Pastor used olive oil.The Thorton Union had some confusion over oil being used a few years back.The SGA does not use oil, but I don't believe, they would drop a church for using it. Brother Slone

 

[Bro. James Reed]

I also don't want to give the impression that we go into every service and dump buckets of oil over our heads.

As I said, I have only seen literal oil used twice, and both times were in a private setting, outside of the church building and service, with only the ordained Elders participating, and the recipients each being a person gravely ill with cancer.

Incidentally, both individuals had a full recovery. One was a deacon who was given a few weeks to live by the doctors, but he has lived for 2 years and has almost completely regained his strength, which is the only lingering sign that he was ever sick.

There was no healing power in that oil, but the show of faith of that brother was strong and I believe God heard the prayers and gave Him renewed strength to continue in this life.

 

[Bethelassoc]

Anointing in oil

United Baptists also vary on the oil issue. I came from a church that did anoint in oil every once in a while....it seemed whatever the ailment was, the person made it through. Now I belong to an association that doesn't practice it, but they don't have any major qualms with anyone that does.

I have heard that some UBs will discipline their ministers for participating in anointing in oil when they as an association may have firm feelings against it.

If only people would realize that it's the power from on high, not what's in the bottle, so whether one does or doesn't means nothing really. IMHO :smilewinkgrin:

Edited to add: When a person asks for the elders of the church, it usually meant that whatever they were facing wasn't going to be fixed with aspirin. I've always felt that the anointing in oil was an outward sign to those witnessing that this person was giving it to the Lord and was being "set aside" if you will for his healing power.

 

[Bro. James Reed]

Edited to add: When a person asks for the elders of the church, it usually meant that whatever they were facing wasn't going to be fixed with aspirin. I've always felt that the anointing in oil was an outward sign to those witnessing that this person was giving it to the Lord and was being "set aside" if you will for his healing power.

Amen! I'll amen that everyday.

I'm not sure about other orders, but it seems to me that the practice of using literal oil in such instances, among Old Baptists of whatever persuasion, is done almost exclusively in the most dire of circumstances.

I have yet to hear of someone requesting this for an ingrown toenail.

 

[amity]

When a person asks for the elders of the church, it usually meant that whatever they were facing wasn't going to be fixed with aspirin. I've always felt that the anointing in oil was an outward sign to those witnessing that this person was giving it to the Lord and was being "set aside" if you will for his healing power.

I have heard it said that oil in the Bible is a picture of grace. If so, then when oil is poured over someone, that is exactly what is being done, is it not?

Terre

 

[Bethelassoc]

I have heard it said that oil in the Bible is a picture of grace. If so, then when oil is poured over someone, that is exactly what is being done, is it not?

Yeah, I think you can look at it that way, although I try not to get caught up in the semantics. What I mean is, here in MO, some of the ministers debate anointing because they refer to the old testament usage of oil (like Ex 29), but I don't believe James is referring to that type of oil (sounds similar to Mark 6:13) -- which brings up the Samaritan that used the oil on the wounded individual laying on the road. I don't believe the Samaritan used the same oil the children of Israel did but an oil for his wounds (Luke 10:33).

With all that aside, in my view, the oil is to show a setting aside to all on lookers that this person is giving their problem to the Lord and nothing else.

 

[Brother Jeremy Slone]

I would think the OT use of oil is a type and shadow of the Holy Spirit. I myself look at that as the anointing. In our Churches we lay hands on the sick, Not the tap you on the head and you fall down but laying of hands and praying to God to anoint them with His Spirit. But if a Church among us wanted to use oil I wouldn't give them a hard time over it. In our association we would let Churches hold their own key on items that we have not agreed already to hold a certain position on that we believe is according to the Word of God. Even in the NT the Churches do things that are types of Christ's blood and life. So i wouldn't fall out over it.

 

[old regular]

Common Grace

Do most Old School Baptist believe in common Grace? Why I do not understand or believe in common Grace in all the ways the reformed people do, I do believe that God lets it rain on the just and the unjust, that he is the give life to all men and substains it as long as he wants. Brother MIke

 

[Sis. Sarah]

Concerning laying on of hands and other acts

What do you all believe regarding praying over a picture of a person? I have seen this done in some United Baptist places. They also took a handkerchief and prayed over it saying they would then give it to someone. I took it they were wanting to do as the people did when they took Paul's apron and handkerchief to the sick to heal them. How far from laying on of hands is this if it is practiced today? I have never attended a place as a member that did either, any of these actions so I was just wondering.

 

[Brother Bob]

Jam 5:14Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:

I am of the Old Regular Baptist and we still practice the above. We believe the oil to be spiritual. I would have no part in praying over a hankercheif or picture. We believe in the "laying on of hands according to the following scripture. It is not a showy thing, but is done in meeknes and prayer.

1Ti 4:14Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery.

 

[TCGreek]

Jam 5:14Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:

I am of the Old Regular Baptist and we still practice the above. We believe the oil to be spiritual. I would have no part in praying over a hankercheif or picture. We believe in the "laying on of hands according to the following scripture. It is not a showy thing, but is done in meeknes and prayer.

I know of a non-denominational group that is not Baptist of any stripe to be practicing this command.

Yes, Bob, I think we are missing out on a blessing from the Lord when we deem this passage as only first century and therefore not relevant today. I really do believe that we are missing out.

Yes, I believe the oil is consecrated through prayer for its intended use.

 

[Brother Bob]

Yes, Bob, I think we are missing out on a blessing from the Lord when we deem this passage as only first century and therefore not relevant today. I really do believe that we are missing out.

Yes, I believe the oil is consecrated through prayer for its intended use.

Thanks TC;
I would like you to see it done at one of our churches. I think you would see the meekness and sincerity, it is done.

 

[Sis. Sarah]

Regarding laying on of hands

Thank you for replying Brother Bob. As I said, I have never been a member of such a place and I did not go back to visit this place. It is of the South Concord Association of United Baptists. I was saved in a place that had the United Baptist name but we sure never did anything like praying over pictures or handkerchiefs and as for the praying over the sick, we never did it in the church, the people would call (as from the hospital or their homes) and it was then done in intemacy I guess you could say. I visited a Missionary Baptist as well and they did pray over the person during the service. I no longer go to any of the United Baptists around where I live because they are all about the same, in the same association. My Dad has started a small church though and we did visit Mt. Zion Old Regular in Ohio last Saturday.

 

[Brother Bob]

Mt. Zion Old Regular in Ohio last Saturday.

Is that where Mike Slone is at?

 

[Sis. Sarah]

Mt. Zion

Yes, and Elder Murrell was there also.

 

[Brother Bob]

I sent you a email by PM but it was messed up. If you want to send me your email by pm, I will send you a word doc. with several Old Regular Baptist in Ohio. I don't know what part you live in.

 

[convicted1]

RE: Old School Baptists Doctrinal Debates

A little over two year ago, I went to a "shed" community meeting about 5 minutes from where I live. It is a 3 night annual meeting( Thursday, Friday, and Saturday nights prior to Memorial day) that has freewills and united baptists( the side of UB that are just like freewills). They have a shed that they hold the meeting under. One night, a lady got up and wanted the christians to lay hands on her for someone who wasn't able to be there because that person was too sick to make it. Has anyone else ever heard of this? I felt real uneasy about this, but I was in no position to object. I just don't see how I can go to church and have the Elders lay hands on me for Brother Bob, if Brother Bob was too sick to make it to church. What should have been done is the members should have gone to that person's house and laid hands on them after the service....but this is just me. What do y'all think about taking someone's place in regards to laying on of hands?? BTW, I am using Brother Bob as an example. I hope you don't object Brother Bob. If I had to travel 10 hours to get to him, I would do it....and he knows it. Love y'all!!

 

[pinoybaptist]

A little over two year ago, I went to a "shed" community meeting about 5 minutes from where I live. It is a 3 night annual meeting( Thursday, Friday, and Saturday nights prior to Memorial day) that has freewills and united baptists( the side of UB that are just like freewills). They have a shed that they hold the meeting under. One night, a lady got up and wanted the christians to lay hands on her for someone who wasn't able to be there because that person was too sick to make it. Has anyone else ever heard of this? I felt real uneasy about this, but I was in no position to object. I just don't see how I can go to church and have the Elders lay hands on me for Brother Bob, if Brother Bob was too sick to make it to church. What should have been done is the members should have gone to that person's house and laid hands on them after the service....but this is just me. What do y'all think about taking someone's place in regards to laying on of hands?? BTW, I am using Brother Bob as an example. I hope you don't object Brother Bob. If I had to travel 10 hours to get to him, I would do it....and he knows it. Love y'all!!

Not to be sarcastic or anything, but kinda reminds me of the Mormons' baptizing somebody for somebody else already dead. Proxy baptism.

I guess the lady went to the other person's house and transferred the "power" of the laid hands on to the other, eh ?

 

[Sis. Sarah]

Transferring of the power

Not to be sarcastic or anything, but kinda reminds me of the Mormons' baptizing somebody for somebody else already dead. Proxy baptism.

I guess the lady went to the other person's house and transferred the "power" of the laid hands on to the other, eh ?

Since you put it that way Pinoy, may I ask another question sort of related to this. Do you all think it is possible for a real, God called preacher to "direct" or let's say "use" the Bible Scriptures to send the power of the message or otherwise in the direction he wishes for it to go for his own purpose (sort of like this transferring)? I know what I believe, but I had a woman one time, and I know this will get Brother Bob's attention (I'm hoping for you to comment Brother Bob because I know you will lay it out there!) tell me that a minister (what they call their preachers) "used his annointing to pick up women." Now I can't wait to hear from you all.

 

[Brother Bob]

but I had a woman one time, and I know this will get Brother Bob's attention (I'm hoping for you to comment Brother Bob because I know you will lay it out there!) tell me that a minister (what they call their preachers) "used his annointing to pick up women." Now I can't wait to hear from you all.

I have no power except my Lord anoint me with His Holy Spirit to Preach and then it is not my power but His. I think for a so called minister to think that his annointing will help help him pick up women, blasphemies against God Himself and puts God to an open shame to try and use something so "Holy" for such purposes. Also, I don't think he has any annointing.

There was a man one time who tried to buy the Holy Ghost and the Lord said thy money perish with thee.

Isa 55:11So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper [in the thing] whereto I sent it.

I am just an instrument that God uses to send His word out to whereever He chooses. I know not, who in the congregation that what I am preaching, is really reaching the heart, but God does.

I think what you said this person says he does, shows that Satan has his ministers also.

2Cr 11:14And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

2Cr 11:15Therefore [it is] no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.