Old Testament, New Testament

[Michael Wrenn]

Here is a good article by an "Arminian" Baptist about how God is presented in the Old Testament and how he is presented in the New Testament:

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/rogereolson/2012/02/regarding-old-testament-texts-of-terror/

 

[Iconoclast]

Here is a good article by an "Arminian" Baptist about how God is presented in the Old Testament and how he is presented in the New Testament:

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/rogereolson/2012/02/regarding-old-testament-texts-of-terror/

Let's look at some of these wonderful gems from this article:

Second, it assumes that everything attributed to God in every Old Testament passage was actually God’s will. In other words, it assumes a certain literalistic view of inspiration and interpretation of the Bible (one I was taught in seminary to call “wooden”)

Second, we have no way of knowing all the circumstances of those alleged divine commands and actions of the Israelites. All we have are reports that God told them to do these things and that they did them. The texts don’t explain the all the circumstances or reasons.

Of course, fundamentalists will cry “liberal!” against anyone who dares to question whether God literally commanded Israel to slaughter babies or slaughtered them himself (as in the killing of Egypt’s firstborn sons during the Exodus

I adamantly reject that libelous accusation. Nobody takes everything in the Old Testament literally.

They are often mentioned by Calvinists to contradict my contention that the God of high Calvinism, insofar as that theology is consistent, is a moral monster.

This apostate "author" exposes His true agenda.....Deny that the word of God is the word of God.....then attack those who believe it is.

You can say what you want...but this is outright apostasy from truth.This is not acceptable in a christian forum.


here is more of this garbage...pitting the OT against the NT....

Should we relativize Jesus in light of the Old Testament or vice versa? What is the best clue to God’s character and will, Jesus or the author(s) of Joshua and Judges?

In other words, not everything in the Old Testament is part of the doctrine to be preached and believed.

This would not even be funny if it was meant as a joke...I cannot believe you would post this.

 

[TC]

What I got out of that horrible article is that there are parts of the OT and NT that he does not like so he wants to take a black marker and cross out what he doesn't agree with - he wants a bible of his own making.

 

[Iconoclast]

What I got out of that horrible article is that there are parts of the OT and NT that he does not like so he wants to take a black marker and cross out what he doesn't agree with - he wants a bible of his own making.

:thumbs::thumbs: exactly...that was horrid:thumbs:

Here is a good article by an "Arminian" Baptist

respectable Arminians will flee from this like the plague....

maybe john Shelby Spong would like this article.

 

[saturneptune]

To me, the relationship between the Old and New Testement is nothing but perfect harmony. (Not like Id like to teach the world to sing). For example, to be simple about it, Genesis 1:1-2 puts the Father and Holy Spirit at Creation, and John 1:1-14 puts Christ at Creation. The exchange between the OT and NT on prophecy and fulfillment is nothing short of amazing, like Micah 5:2. I could go on and on.

Where do these people come from?

 

[Iconoclast]

That guy's picture looks like his mother was a used car salesman and his dad a TV faith healer. That article was terrible, especially the premise, saying one must assume the Bible is literally Inspired.

To me, the relationship between the Old and New Testement is nothing but perfect harmony. (Not like Id like to teach the world to sing). For example, to be simple about it, Genesis 1:1-2 puts the Father and Holy Spirit at Creation, and John 1:1-14 puts Christ at Creation. The exchange between the OT and NT on prophecy and fulfillment is nothing short of amazing, like Micah 5:2. I could go on and on.

Where do these people come from?

Well....I know where they are going if they do not repent.:thumbs:

 

[mandym]

What I got out of that horrible article is that there are parts of the OT and NT that he does not like so he wants to take a black marker and cross out what he doesn't agree with - he wants a bible of his own making.

Which is what Wrenn does

 

[Michael Wrenn]

That you would post this apostate heretic...thinking this article was even christian...much less good is astounding

Let's look at some of these wonderful gems from this article:


This apostate "author" like you..exposes His true agenda.....Deny that the word of God is the word of God.....then attack those who believe it is.

You can say what you want...but this is outright apostasy from truth.This is not acceptable in a christian forum.


here is more of this garbage...pitting the OT against the NT....




This would not even be funny if it was meant as a joke...I cannot believe you would post this.

Hmm... that's how I would describe you, plus a few other descriptions -- Pharisaical accuser of the brethren is one which comes to mind.

This man is a member of the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship, a group of moderate and moderate/conservative Southern Baptists. For accuracy, the liberal group would be the Alliance of Baptists.

I expected you to twist and mischaracterize this, as you do most everything that doesn't fit into your fanatical, radical fundamentalism.

This man is trying to say that the Old Testament should be interpreted through the lens of the life and teachings of Jesus, as I have stated here myself. People like you and like the first century Judaizers who criticized and ultimately were responsible for Jesus' death, do the opposite -- promote an Old Testament Christianity.

So, you think you have a corner on "truth" and what is "Christian". I'm glad God is in charge and not you.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

Well....I know where they are going if they do not repent.:thumbs:

No, you don't, so that makes you a liar.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

Which is what Wrenn does

Another liar and accuser.

 

[mandym]

This man is a member of the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship, a group of moderate and moderate/conservative Southern Baptists. For accuracy, the liberal group would be the Alliance of Baptists.

Because of the opprobrious epithet "liberal," today they call themselves “moderates.” A skunk by any other name still stinks! ~W.A. Criswell

 

[Michael Wrenn]

This man is clearly a moderate evangelical.

I thought this article would be a good discussion starter about some of the problems I've seen some people have with parts of the Old testament. But instead of anyone having the intellectual honesty or maybe capacity to see what the man is saying, all some of you can do is start poisoning the thread with your pathetic fanaticism. You misrepresent what the man is saying -- intentionally or out of ignorance.

As much trouble as I have with the RCC, I have come to the conclusion that there's nothing worse than a fundamentalist fanatic. Talk about repentance, some of you will be required to do that someday. I have never seen such invective and hatefulness in my life as what I've seen here. I knew a former Methodist-turned-Roman Catholic on another forum that approached it, but he didn't quite sink in the mire to the level that you people have.

 

[saturneptune]

Which is what Wrenn does

TC posts solidly Biblical doctrine and uses common sense. You two have nothing in common, so I do not believe you will be building any alliances with him.

 

[mandym]

TC posts solidly Biblical doctrine and uses common sense. You two have nothing in common, so I do not believe you will be building any alliances with him.

I will be in prayer for you.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

Because of the opprobrious epithet "liberal," today they call themselves “moderates.” A skunk by any other name still stinks! ~W.A. Criswell

If you, or Criswell, can't see the difference between the positions of those in the CBF and the Alliance of Baptists, you are either dishonest or ignorant.

And ol' Criswell really reflects Jesus with such comments, doesn't he? Yeah, about as much as you reflect Him.

I'd say the smell emanating from Criswell is quite odorous, so what is he?

 

[Michael Wrenn]

Seems like some here who claim to be Baptists have great difficulty with major parts of the earliest Baptist confessions of faith.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

And I'll say this: If mandym, iconoclast, and anyone else personally attacks me with their vile untruths, I will defend myself. I have "turned the other cheek" before but never again.

I wanted to have a good, honest discussion in a Christlike manner, but that's not possible with foaming-at-the-mouth fanatics.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

What I got out of that horrible article is that there are parts of the OT and NT that he does not like so he wants to take a black marker and cross out what he doesn't agree with - he wants a bible of his own making.

That is a blatant untruth.

 

[saturneptune]

This man is clearly a moderate evangelical.

I thought this article would be a good discussion starter about some of the problems I've seen some people have with parts of the Old testament. But instead of anyone having the intellectual honesty or maybe capacity to see what the man is saying, all some of you can do is start poisoning the thread with your pathetic fanaticism. You misrepresent what the man is saying -- intentionally or out of ignorance.

As much trouble as I have with the RCC, I have come to the conclusion that there's nothing worse than a fundamentalist fanatic. Talk about repentance, some of you will be required to do that someday. I have never seen such invective and hatefulness in my life as what I've seen here. I knew a former Methodist-turned-Roman Catholic on another forum that approached it, but he didn't quite sink in the mire to the level that you people have.

Maybe I can put things in a little perspective, having been here a while, and having spent my sixty years split between 25 Presbyterian and 35 Baptist. The first thing to realize is that some posters burst onto the scene, in very dogmatic, obnoxious posts. The same tired, old pattern is that they call me a heretic, you a heretic, someone else does not have faith, etc, etc. They do not last long. There is one on this thread, which I am not going to name.

Aside from that, there are people who have been here a long time who are a one issue person, and extreme at that. You will notice them linger in the areas of KJVO, Calvinism, Arminianism, Landmarkism, Baptist Bride, no missions, closed communion, etc. I am not saying I agree or disagree with any of these, I am saying these evoke the most hatred, and to a lesser degree, Creationism, and end times doctrine.

Now, as to this thread, one of the basics of Baptist doctrine, and Presbyterian for that matter, it the harmony of the Old and New Testement. I gave some examples above, but everything the Lord did in the OT, I might not like from a human perspective, but He is God, and I have to believe it was the exact thing that needed doing. Every act in the OT brings about the perfect conditions for the coming of Jesus Christ, and the NT is the fulfillment of that. I think the premise of the article that said "one must assume the Bible is literally inspired" well, I believe it is. There are some parables and allegories, song, prophecy, history, proverbs, etc. but the Bible is 100 percent true whether I like the account or not.

I stay away from the radicals you talk about, because their doctrine is either plain wrong or makes a major point out of a minor point. For example, not one person more or less is going to be saved because the Rapture does or does not happen, or if I went to an open or closed communion.

It is a matter of having an internal filter. The Holy Spirit is a great filter. Also, one thing to remember is that this is just words typed by people you do not know. It is not a local church.

 

[saturneptune]

I will be in prayer for you.

I neither covet or need your prayers.