Old Testament re-generation

Does that mean that we are finally in agreement about something? The difference seems to be that you approach the issue literally where I approach it figuratively.

 

It appears that you once again failed to read my entire post! (posted 22-01-2005 10:05)

You said,

That opposes God to His face, a denial of scripture.</font>[/QUOTE]When are you going to acknowledge, as Peter did, that Jesus is God the Son?

Jesus said,

Where do Jesus' words enter the human? IN his spirit! AKA "heart".

 

Wes.

It appears that you once again failed to read my entire post! (posted 22-01-2005 10:05)

I've no 10:05 on my computer. What's the page number or better still cut and paste it.

When are you going to acknowledge, as Peter did, that Jesus is God the Son?

Jesus is God the Son the Son of God. He is my Rock and my Salvation. He is the Mighty God and is in very nature God, the Son of Man. What does that prove? Even Satan knows. Why do you ask?

Where do Jesus' words enter the human? IN his spirit! AKA "heart".

No Wes the words of Jesus enter the man through his ear! The Word enters through the heart!

johnp.

 

Wes.

Does that mean that we are finally in agreement about something?

I should very much doubt it!

The difference seems to be that you approach the issue literally where I approach it figuratively.

But if this the explanation of your question above you had better expand it because I've no idea what you mean old chap.

johnp.

 

Well let's see now, according to your statement, the man who cannot hear never "hears the word of God"! Are you willing to stand by your statement?

 

Are you willing to stand by your statement?

No I'm not. They can enter through the eye and by touch in the case of a person who has lost all other sensory perception.
Do you deny it is The Word that enters the heart?

johnp.

 

Now we're down to the definition of word, who's word, what specific word, etc.

Jesus is God, Faith cometh by Hearing and hearing by the word of God, It is Jesus' word that enters our heart, aka spirit.

 

Wes.

When are you going to acknowledge, as Peter did, that Jesus is God the Son?
Why'd yer ask? Why did you think this had a bearing?
It appears that you once again failed to read my entire post! (posted 22-01-2005 10:05)
Where is this post? 2nd time I've asked. Why did you bring this up and leave it? I would like to know. I don't like not answering points but sometimes they get left out. You only have to draw my attention to it for me to answer. You draw my attention to it but do not tell me where?
The difference seems to be that you approach the issue literally where I approach it figuratively.
What do you mean by this Wes? I do not understand it. What difference does it make in the approach we take? The same meaning must still be present either way must it not?
Now we're down to the definition of word, who's word, what specific word, etc.
Are you saying that you do not know a difference between the Word of God and the word of God? Is that what you are saying?
Are you willing to stand by your statement?
I will stand by my statement as my statement was in fact right but so was yours. It is not a point to argue. You win.

johnp.

 

my post of 22-01-2005 10:05

Scripture please.

John 3:6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, `You must be born again.' 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."

johnp. </font>[/QUOTE]According to Jesus, all sins are of the spirit, because,

The spirit is what gives life to, and therefore controls the flesh. So if a person sins in the flesh, it is because of the spirit, and not the flesh. </font>[/QUOTE]

 

Originally posted by johnp.:
Wes.

Why'd yer ask? Why did you think this had a bearing?</font>[/QUOTE]You seem consistant in not including the words of Jesus in your arguments relative to the Word of God. You instead quote the Apostles. Jesus is the authority. It is Jesus' words that bring one to belief. The letters of the Apostles seem to me more explanation and "living the Christian life." Sort of "now that you are a believer, here's how to life your belief'.

Where is this post? 2nd time I've asked. Why did you bring this up and leave it? I would like to know. I don't like not answering points but sometimes they get left out. You only have to draw my attention to it for me to answer. You draw my attention to it but do not tell me where?</font>[/QUOTE]Again, You posted Romans 8 on the subject of life and spirit, as if to tell me that is the word of God on the matter of spirit and flesh. I posted John 6:63 where God the son, who is the authority says the spirit is the life of the flesh, the flesh has nothing to offer. Romans 8 tells us that human spirit is against the spirit of God and the spirit of God is against human spirit. My point is that human flesh with a dead spirit is dead flesh that must be disposed of. Human flesh with a living spirit is flesh that is alive and able to respond to God. So your strong belief that man is not capable of responding to God or even seeking God is phoney balony.

What do you mean by this Wes? I do not understand it. What difference does it make in the approach we take? The same meaning must still be present either way must it not?</font>[/QUOTE]You take the literal meaning of scripture when it supports your belief system, ignoring the figurative nature of the writing.

Are you saying that you do not know a difference between the Word of God and the word of God? Is that what you are saying?</font>[/QUOTE]NO that is not what I said. It is a matter of how the word is 'HEARD'. It matters not which of the senses "picks up" the word of God, the word gets to the human spirit where it is "heard" meaning 'understood' and accepted, and ready to be acted upon.

I will stand by my statement as my statement was in fact right but so was yours. It is not a point to argue. You win.</font>[/QUOTE]It appears that you are under the impression that 'Hearing the word of God' means receiving through the auditory senses. Well when one reads the word, that is not through the auditory senses, when a blind person scans the bumb patterns with finger tips, that is not through the auditory senses. Your statement that you are standing on is partially true, but there are other means of "hearing", and "hearing" actually takes place in the mind and spirit of the person.

 

Wes, Outwest,

Your statement is correct. ‘ . . . actually takes place in the mind and spirit of the person.’ [/quote]

It is true that some people hear the salvation message and turn it aside while other takes action on not only hearing with the ear but in their spirit also. The non-elect hear it with both the ear and in their spirit, but they turn him aside.

One Biblical example of this dividing of persons is found in Hebrews 4:2. The ones offering saving faith to God, mixed what they heard with their faith in Jesus. The writer of Hebrews indicates that those who rejected the message leading to eternal life ‘ . . . did not {let it} profit them.’

Almighty God, after hearing the Word unto salvation, calls for a commitment to follow Him, or as Rev. Dr. Billy Graham says, ‘This is your Hour of Decision.’ It is true that a commitment has to be more than just having faith in the Lord. We should be discipling men and women to study the Scripture, which is our bread of life.

Becoming 'born again' is only the spiritual birth; development in the Christian life takes a lifetime.

 

Thank you for your confirmation Ray, It seems to me that many do not think things through. God gave us the capability and the ability to think but concerning matters of the spirit people don't do that thinking. They do a lot of looking at scripture and a lot of Proof texting without really thinking the whole thing through and thereby becoming a true child of the living God.

 

Wes, Outwest,

What you said is frightening. People handling and commenting about the Word of God without a real personal relationship to Jesus. That is why Jesus said in that day I will say unto them, 'I never knew you.' I am sure there will be other hardened sinners who He will say the same thing to relative to their rejecting of so great a grace.

You said,

 

Well Wes I think that the many people would thank you for saying that too much time is spent in the scriptures instead of thinking! Who are these many?

You seem consistant in not including the words of Jesus in your arguments relative to the Word of God.

The reason I do not object to this statement and view it as false is because I have taken your viewpoint into consideration.

You instead quote the Apostles.

The words of the Apostles then are not the words of Jesus you say. If they are not the words of Jesus they will, with a certainty, carry no authority. We need listen to no man.

Jesus is the authority.

Indeed.

It is Jesus' words that bring one to belief.

Explain this process. How do the words of Jesus bring one to belief? That it just convinces with good argument or is it something else? What we talking about at the end of this post?

The letters of the Apostles seem to me more explanation and "living the Christian life." Sort of "now that you are a believer, here's how to life your belief'.

Why should we listen? What do they know if it is not God in them causing the writing of scripture. Just the opinions of man. Take it or leave it. Yea! Great! Leave it then!
Christianity for Dumbies is it, the books of the Apostles? Wow man! You had better be right or you cannot hear the sound of the Shepherd's voice can you? If you are right that would mean that I cannot hear His voice but I follow another!

Again, You posted Romans 8 on the subject of life and spirit, as if to tell me that is the word of God on the matter of spirit and flesh.

Of course that was silly of me but I did not realise the extent of your darkness before did I? Romans 8 was written by a man, a teacher, one that took the words of Jesus and did what? What did He do with God's words? Did he change them? Did he write them from memory and fell short in some way? Did he have a good guess at God's mind? Does his writing carry any authority or is that just Paul again spouting off?

I posted John 6:63 where God the son, who is the authority says the spirit is the life of the flesh, the flesh has nothing to offer.

Why do you believe that John writes the very words of Jesus. It is John that says that Jesus says, is there anything here or elsewhere that would enable us to distinquish between the very words of Jesus and a man's opinions or what?

I posted John 6:63 where God the son, who is the authority says the spirit is the life of the flesh, the flesh has nothing to offer.

John 6:63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life.
That's the NIV rendition.

What is that translation of yours that says, "the spirit is the life of the flesh"? This you must answer. It is diametrically opposed to, "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." John 3:6. Have you added to scripture or does it really say that in your bible. The truth.
You have a misconception concerning a dead spirit. A dead spirit is cut off from God. It has not ceased to exist but ceased to exist as it was meant to exist, in communion with God. Death never means ceasing to exist! That would be Arianism Jw.ism. Or as you might say, "Phoney-balonyism."

You take the literal meaning of scripture when it supports your belief system...
A sad practice I'm sure. Where should I look for answers then, in me mind? What is a figurative meaning that can change the meaning of clear scripture?
...ignoring the figurative nature of the writing.
You cannot escape reality ever. The figurative meaning starts at Gen 1 with the ones that try to corrupt God's word to us with stories and imaginations that change six days into 16 Billion years!HaHa! Do you aim that high figuratively speaking?
I'm sure that Romans 3:11-18 "There is no one righteous, not even one; 11 there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God. 12 All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one." 13 "Their throats are open graves; their tongues practice deceit." "The poison of vipers is on their lips." 14 "Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness." 15 "Their feet are swift to shed blood; 16 ruin and misery mark their ways, 17 and the way of peace they do not know." 18 "There is no fear of God before their eyes." Is none too figurative.
But there I go again! Is there no reasoning with the lad? Using scripture literally like some clod from the back streets of London Town. Backing up his words with the word of God without shame or deiceit in the service of and to the glory of my Rock and my Salvation. I have a clear conscience.

I dismiss your charge that I twist scripture to my own ends. I must or I deny my God. I speak as I hear. I believe and I pass that belief on along with the understanding I have. None of this is mine. If I don't know I say so. Where I am in error I can be corrected.
Trust in your own strength must be terribly wearing. He said, "Therefore, since the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it. 2 For we also have had the gospel preached to us, just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because those who heard did not combine it with faith. 3 Now we who have believed enter that rest... HEB 4:1-3.
Heb 4:-11 9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10 for anyone who enters God's rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from his. 11 Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following their example of disobedience.
John 6:29 Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."
You are saved by grace or you are not saved at all.

It appears that you are under the impression that 'Hearing the word of God' means receiving through the auditory senses. Well when one reads the word, that is not through the auditory senses, when a blind person scans the bumb patterns with finger tips, that is not through the auditory senses. Your statement that you are standing on is partially true, but there are other means of "hearing", and "hearing" actually takes place in the mind and spirit of the person.

...but there are other means of "hearing", and "hearing" actually takes place in the mind and spirit of the person.

But only God can work alive a dead thing. How does the message arrive at the spirit, mind or heart unless it is transmitted through the senses? Does it go directly to the spirit, mind or heart? Are you being figurative? What we talking about?

Thanks Ray. Yes he did say that did he not. Nice to see you agreeing with him. Does this mean we are not brothers? Not that I mind. To be honest I had stopped regarding you as kin sometime ago.
'They do a lot of looking at scripture and a lot of Proof texting without really thinking the whole thing through and thereby becoming a true child of the living God.
That's good. We should be honest with one another should we not. I'm sure you would not agree with me but there is a different approach to make to the unsaved ones as compared to a true Child of God.

johnp.

 

It was said,

No I do not agree with the tenants of Calvinism, and this means that I do not consider some Calvinists Christians. Some are and some are not saved. I am not sitting in judgment about your faith or lack thereof.

People like me seriously question those who do not follow the inherent meaning of various Scriptural passages. To say that the Lord selects some for Heaven and some for Hell is a thought that I just cannot believe, because of His truth found in holy writ. This does not make me bad, just careful as to what men say God is saying. After all, it is my soul that I am looking out for so that I am included among His brethren.

We are not ‘kin’ as far as human genealogy but I hope we are brothers and followers of the Lamb. Do you love Jesus? If you really do then we both have been adopted into the family of God. [Galatians 4:5]

Only those who have received Christ are the sons and daughter of God. [John 1:12] Those who do this and trust in Jesus and His promises of salvation and eternal life, are among the Lord’s people.

Hoping that you are the elect will not cut it. No Calvinistic or Arminian wand will transform you into the Kingdom of God and make you a child of the living God. Intentionally, receiving God’s Son—Jesus will make it happen and the transformation will take place. [II Cor. 5:17]

 

Hi Wes;

I believe what you're talking about is better described with the word "Meditating".

1Ti 4:15 Meditate upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all.

May God Bless You;
Mike

 

The O.T. laity had the sacrifices and later from Moses on—the sacrifices and the Law; they followed what the priests and the prophets told them but did not have the full orbed truths of the complete salvific understanding of Jesus Christ, and of His future ascension and glorification at the Father’s right hand in Heaven.

If they lived during Isaiah’s prophetic time, they would have known of the virgin birth. [Is. 7:14] Some and perhaps many understood Isaiah chapter 53, about the future suffering Messiah and Lord.

 

GE 3:15 And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring and hers;
he will crush your head,
and you will strike his heel."

Christ has been known from the beginning Ray.

johnp.

 

Hey JohnP

I might agree that this is prophetic in nature but I know that because I know the story of Christ. Adam was still alive at the time and he did not know anything about Christ. There is nothing in this verse that any one who doesn't know Christ could relate to Him. Your just flat out wrong
May Christ Shine His Light On Us all;
Mike

 

Is ILUVLIGHT also among the prophets!

Adam was still alive at the time and he did not know anything about Christ.
Who are you to tell me that you know what Adam knew!HaHa! You are getting worse! First you tell me what I'm thinking and how I intend to reply to you then you tell me what Adam knew. I'll tell you what Adam knew!

I might agree that this is prophetic in nature [Gen 3:15] but I know that because I know the story of Christ.
You might agree? Messes up your doctrine don't it? I mean if Adam knew. If when Jesus was explaining to the disciples what their predecessors knew about Him and why they searched for the time and place that this should be. That makes you wrong does it not?
1PE 1:10 Concerning this salvation, the prophets, who spoke of the grace that was to come to you, searched intently and with the greatest care, 11 trying to find out the time and circumstances to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when he predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow.
The Spirit of Christ in them! Adam was a prophet.
Eve too was one, GE 3:2 The woman said to the serpent, "We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, `You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.' "
A prophetess speaking the word of God to another being of God's creation and issuing a warning.

There is nothing in this verse that any one who doesn't know Christ could relate to Him.
Gen 3:9 But the LORD God called to the man, "Where are you?"
What do you mean, "Didn't know Christ"? Adam spoke face to face with Him. The Lord most high tells His people things about Himself. It's a relationship. Don't you see the sacrifice made for them? GE 3:21 The LORD God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them. They knew Christ and how He would save them. That is what they knew. Blood was spilt for them. The sacrifice explained. The redeemed have never looked on God in any other way than the sacrifice for sin. The Saviour. The Atoning sacrifice.
The Lamb of God. What of Abraham? GE 22:8 Abraham answered, "God himself will provide the lamb for the burnt offering, my son." And the two of them went on together. 14 So Abraham called that place The LORD Will Provide.
I know my Redeemer lives and I shall see Him face to face and with my own eyes. Job 19:25. On being redeemed and the coming resurrection.
How can you believe they did not know? It messes up your doctrine and your doctrine is what? Potage?

johnp.