freeatlast
New Member
Not according to the bible.
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Old Testament Value
- Thread starter HAMel
- Start date
Not according to the bible.
Not according to the bible.
My Bible states that next event will be rapture/Second Coming, than reign of jesus, than Final state...
What else does your Bible add to that?
freeatlast
New Member
My Bible states that next event will be rapture/Second Coming, than reign of jesus, than Final state...
What else does your Bible add to that?
No your bible does not state that nor does anyone else's. That is your belief as to what is next and how it will take place.
There are also many things in the OT that have not been fulfilled. That is why you need the OT as it is clear you do not know what it teaches. Also we are told we need it.
All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
You nor me nor anyone can come to the place in our walk with the Lord without the OT along with the NT. When this was written there was no NT. It was speaking about the OT and still does and we have to have it to know how to live our lives.
No your bible does not state that nor does anyone else's. That is your belief as to what is next and how it will take place.
There are also many things in the OT that have not been fulfilled. That is why you need the OT as it is clear you do not know what it teaches. Also we are told we need it.
All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
You nor me nor anyone can come to the place in our walk with the Lord without the OT along with the NT. When this was written there was no NT. It was speaking about the OT and still does and we have to have it to know how to live our lives.
just WHAT do you see happening from this time forward, how is the OT still to be fulfilled?
freeatlast
New Member
Let me refer you to post #13 on just a very few things of many that still have to be fulfilled. As to the timing the bible does not tell us. I do agree that the rapture will take place and then the tribulation time with Christ coming to set up His earthly kingdom, but also to be honest I cannot be absolutely dogmatic as the timing and even some of the events are questionable as to how they play out.just WHAT do you see happening from this time forward, how is the OT still to be fulfilled?
We not only need the OT to understand all that is going to happen but so we can understand how to live a godly life.
2 Tim 3:16,17 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
Let me refer you to post #13 on just a very few things of many that still have to be fulfilled. As to the timing the bible does not tell us. I do agree that the rapture will take place and then the tribulation time with Christ coming to set up His earthly kingdom, but also to be honest I cannot be absolutely dogmatic as the timing and even some of the events are questionable as to how they play out.
We not only need the OT to understand all that is going to happen but so we can understand how to live a godly life.
2 Tim 3:16,17 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
What is there in the OT that can add or make better that wichich already granted to us in the NT from the Apostles of the Lord?
freeatlast
New Member
What is there in the OT that can add or make better that wichich already granted to us in the NT from the Apostles of the Lord?
That is easy. The word of God. With only the NT you only have part of the recipe. You need it all to know how to live for the Lord.
All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
Maybe that is why you are having such a hard time understanding we do not have to sin every day because you only have part (or use part) of the word of God.
That is easy. The word of God. With only the NT you only have part of the recipe. You need it all to know how to live for the Lord.
All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
Maybe that is why you are having such a hard time understanding we do not have to sin every day because you only have part (or use part) of the word of God.
What part of the OT do you Directly apply to your life now as a Christian?
freeatlast
New Member
All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:What part of the OT do you Directly apply to your life now as a Christian?
That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
Do I take that to mean that you live under the OT law then, making sure to follow all of its prohibitions and practices?
freeatlast
New Member
Do I take that to mean that you live under the OT law then, making sure to follow all of its prohibitions and practices?
You can take it any way you want. I believe the passage instead of denying it as you do.
You can take it any way you want. I believe the passage instead of denying it as you do.
I believe that the Bible in inspired by the HS, is complete/ONLY revelation of God to us for today, but that while ALL is inspired and is for me, not ALL in the OT no longer applies directly to me!
As no under a new and better Covenant than they were in isreal time!
freeatlast
New Member
Just believe what is written;I believe that the Bible in inspired by the HS, is complete/ONLY revelation of God to us for today, but that while ALL is inspired and is for me, not ALL in the OT no longer applies directly to me!
As no under a new and better Covenant than they were in isreal time!
2Tim 3:16,17
All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
Just believe what is written;
2Tim 3:16,17
All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
Are we still under the requirements of the OT Law, or now under Grace?
What OT requiremnt under the Law that God had His people to do are you still doing today?
glfredrick
New Member
Are we still under the requirements of the OT Law, or now under Grace?
What OT requiremnt under the Law that God had His people to do are you still doing today?
Your first question is a complex question and a fallacy. Not to pick on you, but the answer is yes. However, as I stated above, Christ perfectly fulfilled that law on our behalf both actively (in that He did all that the Law required) and passively (in that He did not sin in any other way against that Law) so as to be able to impute the benefits of His perfect righteousness onto those of us who have no hope.
Your first question is a complex question and a fallacy. Not to pick on you, but the answer is yes. However, as I stated above, Christ perfectly fulfilled that law on our behalf both actively (in that He did all that the Law required) and passively (in that He did not sin in any other way against that Law) so as to be able to impute the benefits of His perfect righteousness onto those of us who have no hope.
To ask it another way...
Are we who are under the new Covenant obigated to foolow the Law as some of say the "reformed "would say that we are still required to do?
glfredrick
New Member
To ask it another way...
Are we who are under the new Covenant obigated to foolow the Law as some of say the "reformed "would say that we are still required to do?
Obliged is a problem. We should strive to follow the law of God. We are not obliged because we cannot. That is what the New Covenant is all about -- not a free pass.
There are some notable exceptions:
Gentiles are not subject to the Law intended for Jews -- as decided at the Jerusalem Council, which reverted back to the Noahic Covenant as the basis for right and proper actions for those not of a Jewish persuasion.
We are not legalists, but under grace. By Paul's argument, that does not mean that we set aside the Law, but rather that we rightly understand that even if we wished we could never fulfill it. Christ did fulfill it and we are imputed His righteousness, so before God it is as if we had fulfilled the Law in its entirety.
There are some other new practices instituted by church under the New Covenant, i.e., WE are now the temple, so any legal activities surrounding temple issues (sacrifice, etc.) are annulled. The Sabbath is not in force as it was in pre-NC times. Rather, we celebrate the Lord's Day, and that not exactly in a Sabbatarian form. We are atoned for, so some of the Law surrounding atonement (different from sacrifice) are also annulled. And, noteably, God issued a new standard for food practices to Peter, and with those food practices also alternative standards of what makes one clean or unclean. In essence, one cannot be unclean if one is indwelt with the Holy Spirit.
There are other issues that I either don't have the time or the resources to develop here, but it is safe to say that the entire issue is MUCH MORE than a couple of phrases or a "do we or do we not" sort of exercise.
Obliged is a problem. We should strive to follow the law of God. We are not obliged because we cannot. That is what the New Covenant is all about -- not a free pass.
There are some notable exceptions:
Gentiles are not subject to the Law intended for Jews -- as decided at the Jerusalem Council, which reverted back to the Noahic Covenant as the basis for right and proper actions for those not of a Jewish persuasion.
We are not legalists, but under grace. By Paul's argument, that does not mean that we set aside the Law, but rather that we rightly understand that even if we wished we could never fulfill it. Christ did fulfill it and we are imputed His righteousness, so before God it is as if we had fulfilled the Law in its entirety.
There are some other new practices instituted by church under the New Covenant, i.e., WE are now the temple, so any legal activities surrounding temple issues (sacrifice, etc.) are annulled. The Sabbath is not in force as it was in pre-NC times. Rather, we celebrate the Lord's Day, and that not exactly in a Sabbatarian form. We are atoned for, so some of the Law surrounding atonement (different from sacrifice) are also annulled. And, noteably, God issued a new standard for food practices to Peter, and with those food practices also alternative standards of what makes one clean or unclean. In essence, one cannot be unclean if one is indwelt with the Holy Spirit.
There are other issues that I either don't have the time or the resources to develop here, but it is safe to say that the entire issue is MUCH MORE than a couple of phrases or a "do we or do we not" sort of exercise.
Would you say that we now have a relationship to God via the Cross where we can now obey God, but not by keeping external rules/rituals etc, but by walking in the HS and allowing Him to in and through us empower us to "do acts of the Spirit, not letter, of the Law!"
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
During Paul's ministry, the "Bible" was the Old Testament. If you read Paul's Epistles to Timothy you will see that the purpose of the O.T. was to reveal the prophecies
concerning Messiah [1 Tim 1:18]. Nowhere in the O.T. is the "Church" revealed. The "Church" mystery was revealed to Paul. That is why Paul's Epistles are "foundational" to Christians.
1 Cor 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon.
Now that the New Testament is complete, and now that we have Paul's FOUNDATIONAL Epistles, then the O.T. takes on a different "role" to the Church in this present age of Grace.
Without a strong FOUNDATION from Paul's Epistles and proper prioritizing of the O.T., all kinds of heresies spring up such as teaching that the Church has somehow "replaced" (genetic) Israel.
[see Rom ch 9,10,11]
"Genetic" Israel did not need to be replaced. When Paul said: For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: he distinguished between "genetic" Israel and spiritual Israel. The Church is basically a continuation of spiritual Israel as the Apostle Paul shows in Romans 11.
Recall that in Galatians 3:8 the Apostle Paul states: And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. Paul later tells us in Galatians3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
It is also important to note that in Galatians 3:29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
glfredrick
New Member
Would you say that we now have a relationship to God via the Cross where we can now obey God, but not by keeping external rules/rituals etc, but by walking in the HS and allowing Him to in and through us empower us to "do acts of the Spirit, not letter, of the Law!"
That is in line with what I would say, yes. It is especially the "spirit" of the Law that Christ calls us to live in the Sermon on the Mount.