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On Heresy

atpollard

atpollard

Well-Known Member
AustinC said:
Joel Osteen, heretic or not heretic, tis the question! All synergists untie! I mean, unite!
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I am not sure that Joel qualifies as a "heretic". A heretic has false beliefs about serving God, but Joel believes that God serves us and our best life is now. Doesn't that make Joel more of a "pagan" ... like a Buddhist or Muslim or Animist?
 
M

Marooncat79

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
JonC said:
When I started seminary (a long time ago in a galaxy far far away) I had a professor that said something similar.

He told us that the Calvinism debate was an undergraduate topic we should have outgrown. The theological topic for graduate school was Divine Love. This is a move toward spiritual truth while the latter was a Christian philosophical exercise.

The older I get the more I see truth in his comments. I probably should have long ago, but I wasn’t the quickest student.

Time helps where youthful intellect has failed me. I may not remember what I’m talking about any more, but I"m at the point where I am pretty sure that I do not have to be too dogmatic about it. :Wink
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What school did you attend?

What was his name?
 
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Marooncat79

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Sai said:
Thank you. I did not attend seminary but have been discipled by some of today’s leading scholars.

Before my acquaintances I too felt that love of the brotherhood was the top goal for the teaching elders. However, although true, this too is only a part in the whole counsel of the word of God. Because prophecy makes up 27% of the Bible I would argue for this topic to be at the top of the hidden meat teachings of God’s word.

In the book of Revelation everything with the exception of the teaching on the eternal order after the Messianic Kingdom was already spoken by the Old Testament prophets. What Revelation does is to put into chronological order what was impossible to do by the reading of the OT prophets by themselves. Daniel can not be fully understood without Revelation and visa versa.

Because all of the dealings of God to us-ward since Abraham has been contractual through the Jewish nation of Israel, it is imperative to study the prophetic portions of scripture from a first century Jewish perspective. And not just that, but a first century believing Jew’s perspective which is who the authors of the New Testament were, including Luke.

To ignore this underlying truth as students of the Hebrew Bible is ignorance and in much of the cases, willful ignorance as is taught from the replacement theologians. Although not heretical it is not beneficial for us if we desire to live skillfully for God as Ps 90 instructs.
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Which scholars?

Thanks
 
M

Marooncat79

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Dont want to inflame the thread but Cals see Divine Love in predestination. We are recipients of it as the elect of God.

We see Gods love for the “few” or “remnant” not everyone

Btw, Cal is not Hypercalvinism. They are 2 totally distinct issues. One is heresy the other is not.

Please do not fire it up over this post

Just trying to be clear


Thanks
 
JonC

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
Marooncat79 said:
What school did you attend?

What was his name?
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I attended Columbia State (a community college in TN), Troy State University, Tennessee College of Applied Technology, Montgomery University, and Liberty University. The professor who told me that was at Liberty University (I believe this would have been graduate school which I completed via an online format). I cannot remember the professor who said that as this or the course but I assume it was a theology prof.. My primary interest then was Church History and I know it was not that professor.
 
Y

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
atpollard said:
I am not sure that Joel qualifies as a "heretic". A heretic has false beliefs about serving God, but Joel believes that God serves us and our best life is now. Doesn't that make Joel more of a "pagan" ... like a Buddhist or Muslim or Animist?
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How about like a Muslim, as having a God who is not the One of the Bible?
 
V

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Returning to the compulsion versus persuasion issue...

God is sovereign.
But what does that mean?
Does God compel whatsoever comes to pass?
Or does God cause or allow whatsoever comes to pass.

Those in positions of power condemn those not in power as heretics.
This has nothing whatsoever to do with whether a view accurately presentments scripture.
The Pharisees condemned Christ.

Rather than finding fault with others, consider how many Calvinists post about the faults of Calvinism?
Answer, they do not. Instead they misrepresent Calvinism, such as the "T" just means the fallen cannot save themselves. Did any other Calvinist post a rebuke or correction? Nope. There you have it folks. Nuff said
 
atpollard

atpollard

Well-Known Member
Van said:
Returning to the compulsion versus persuasion issue...
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Was this topic EVER about "the compulsion versus persuasion issue"?
I thought it was about the definition of Heresy and people having a double standard for using the term.

Van said:
Rather than finding fault with others, consider how many Calvinists post about the faults of Calvinism?
Answer, they do not. Instead they misrepresent Calvinism, such as the "T" just means the fallen cannot save themselves. Did any other Calvinist post a rebuke or correction? Nope. There you have it folks. Nuff said
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Your rant isn't really about "the compulsion versus persuasion issue", but is is an excellent on-topic illustration of someone exercising a "double standard". :)

Kick that strawman again! Kick it once for me!
 
atpollard

atpollard

Well-Known Member
JonC said:
Would it be fair to say, then, that a Yankee fan is predestined to that fate?
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God from all eternity did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass : yet so, as thereby neither is God the author of Yankee Fans, nor is violence offered to the will of New Yorkers; nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established.
 
JonC

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
atpollard said:
God from all eternity did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass : yet so, as thereby neither is God the author of Yankee Fans, nor is violence offered to the will of New Yorkers; nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established.
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At the same time we have to recognize that this is not the fault of God as He also provided New York with the Met's. So their guilt is on their own heads.
 
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