On immigration, are we more mature than first-graders?

[KenH]

“The news has sparked outrage, but the underlying illness is the longstanding failure of the immigration system. ...

So the adult thing to do is to beef up the border, including extending the wall if need be, even if some of us think there are better, less expensive ways. At the same time, we let the Dreamers become citizens or at least permanent residents, even if some believe it sets a bad precedent. And of course, we don’t separate children from their parents and leave them in a caged warehouse. Even first-graders know that’s just mean.“

On immigration, are we more mature than first-graders? - independentarkansas.com

 

[Adonia]

Unfortunately, Chuckie Schumer has already indicated there will be no negotiations on a new immigration law. The first grader Schumer and the rest of the Democrats want everything they want, but will agree to nothing President Trump wants.

Once again we can see that there is no talking to these people, no good faith negotiations can be had with them. The blame for no new immigration laws falls squarely on the shoulders of Schumer and the Democrats. Trump has offered to talk, Schumer rejects this.

 

[Revmitchell]

Unfortunately the op misses the agenda that is not discussed publically. The liberal left wants open borders so as to create a North American Union much like the EU. They also want the votes from these illegals so as to make sure they are the only ones who win each election.

The RINO's want the cheap labor so, while they are not necessarily for open borders they like things as they are.

Then there is the true conservatives. We want a secure border. At this point we could agree to let the dreamers stay and be legal but only if we secure the border properly. We need a comprehensive migrant plan but the Dems do not want to be forced to come to the table until they believe they have the votes nationally to call for open borders.

The op is just uninformed and doesn't have a clue what issues are at stake.

 

[KenH]

The op is just uninformed and doesn't have a clue what issues are at stake

You couldn’t be more wrong. Have you read the entire column?

 

[Revmitchell]

You couldn’t be more wrong. Have you read rhe entire column?

I did and I am not wrong.

 

[KenH]

Yes, you are wrong. Totally wrong. Only an extremist on the far right or the far left would bash that column like you did.

 

[Revmitchell]

Yes, you are wrong. Totally wrong. Only an extremist on the far right or the far left would bash that column like you did.

First I didn't bash the column. Second, specifically tell me on which point I am wrong and why. I said the op was wrong and listed several reasons why. Disagreeing is not bashing.

So, if you are going to tell me I am wrong be kind enough to be specific. Which points am I wrong on:

1. The far left wants open boarders and a North American Union
2. Dems want the votes from the illegals.
3. RINO's want the cheap labor


I await your reasoned response.

 

[KenH]

There is absolutely nothing in the column that advocates any of those three things. So are you admitting you are not discussing the column? You said the author is uninformed. The author is a good friend of mine and is always well reasoned in his writings. If you want to say something like that to him personally, you can do so at the link.

 

[777]

oh, so you know this guy? I will agree that it's well-written but I think the writer himself sounds a little childish in a few parts:

That’s especially unfortunate because the United States is a nation of immigrants.

No, it's not, it's a nation of settlers, native Americans and descendant of slaves. Does he think everybody here was born in another country?

The news has sparked outrage, but the underlying illness is the longstanding failure of the immigration system.

followed by:

Historically, we do immigration better than anyone.

??? Then there's the "all the other kids are doing" it argument:

Most would agree that a person brought to the United States as a child and raised and educated here at taxpayer expense – the so-called “Dreamers” – should not be forced to go “home” to a country they may not even know.

Who's "most"? The DACA illegals are mostly grown-up now, their own parents came to a country THEY didn't know as an adult. Next sentence:

They also should not be be forced to live along the edges of society here – illegal but unprosecuted.

??? Has this writer never seen all these DACA illegals storm politician's offices and march in parades waving the Mexican flag?

At the same time, we let the Dreamers become citizens or at least permanent residents, even if some believe it sets a bad precedent.

No, no, no, you never want to willingly reinforce bad behavior. Then he shows a lack of historical perspective:

We’ve been down this road before, only to run off in the ditch before anything arrived on the president’s desk.

Reagan went down another road that looks quite like the one he's proposing:

Let’s reunite the families now.. And then let’s quickly pass compromise immigration legislation that keeps this from happening again, strengthens border security, treats the Dreamers compassionately, and maybe touches on other immigration issues, but not all of them

the government will give the amnesty and gut the border security, this op/ed screams Jeb and Juan to me.

 

[KenH]

Right-wingers and left-wingers are truly incorrigible, which is why we can’t solve this issue or the others that have been festering in this country for years.

 

[777]

NO. Again, thirty years ago the left and the right came together and granted a one-time only amnesty bill that was supposed to secure the border. It didn't solve the issue at all, just acerbated it.

At least your friend had a solution, but once bitten, twice shy. Actually, moderates from the eighties are more to blame.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

And people who try and play both sides are phony.

 

[carpro]

It would be hard to be more immature than the subject of this thread.

 

[Adonia]

NO. Again, thirty years ago the left and the right came together and granted a one-time only amnesty bill that was supposed to secure the border. It didn't solve the issue at all, just acerbated it.

If only the Democrats had kept their part of the bargain which was complete and total border security after the amnesty to keep us from coming back to the same place. President Ragan got snookered and he should have known the Democrats would not adhere to the agreement. Now here we are with over 15 million illegals in the country and more trying to enter everyday.

 

[Adonia]

Yes, you are wrong. Totally wrong. Only an extremist on the far right or the far left would bash that column like you did.

Here is one paragraph from your friend. It says: "Under a “zero tolerance” policy initiated by President Trump’s attorney general, Jeff Sessions, about 2,000 children have been separated from their families at the border as their parents’ cases are considered. The Associated Press visited a South Texas warehouse where about 200 unaccompanied children were being housed in cages, one with 20 inside, though they could leave for a common area with portable restrooms. The overhead lights never are turned off. Under U.S. law, the children are supposed to leave the facility within three days for a shelter".

First he says that about 2000 children have been separated by their families. Then he mentions a warehouse where 200 unaccompanied children are housed. So what are we talking about here, the separated children or the unaccompanied ones? He says they are being housed in "cages". Cages like the ones I put my dog into, or is he using the word "cages" as an incendiary word when in reality it is just chain link fencing placed together to partition areas off? You know, like the chain link fencing we put around playgrounds at schools. The fact is the place described is an initial holding area where the kids are first brought to before they go off to more permanent facilities.

But okay, let's allow the "Dreamers" to stay here - I'll agree to that. But this time the border must be completely and fully secured with a wall and an increase in border patrol people. At the same time, we must end this "birthright citizenship" idea for foreigners, something that was never envisioned by those who wrote that particular amendment. to the Constitution. This simply acts as an incentive for foreigners to come here and must be done away with.

People who are not citizens and enter the country illegally and are caught are to be kicked out of the country immediately. Due process needs to be eliminated for these people by law. All persons must enter the country at ports of entry or with visas issued by embassies abroad.

Chain migration must be eliminated also, no cousins or uncles allowed, just immediate family members of those allowed legal entry. And that insane "Visa Lottery" that takes no account of the person who wins it must also be ended.

If we were to do all those common sense things, then all our citizens would be able to live in harmony, a happy and prosperous nation we would be. Don't you agree?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

If only the Democrats had kept their part of the bargain which was complete and total border security after the amnesty to keep us from coming back to the same place. President Ragan got snookered and he should have known the Democrats would not adhere to the agreement. Now here we are with over 15 million illegals in the country and more trying to enter everyday.

I have simpathy for those people.... Noooo that was W.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Here is one paragraph from your friend. It says: "Under a “zero tolerance” policy initiated by President Trump’s attorney general, Jeff Sessions, about 2,000 children have been separated from their families at the border as their parents’ cases are considered. The Associated Press visited a South Texas warehouse where about 200 unaccompanied children were being housed in cages, one with 20 inside, though they could leave for a common area with portable restrooms. The overhead lights never are turned off. Under U.S. law, the children are supposed to leave the facility within three days for a shelter".

First he says that about 2000 children have been separated by their families. Then he mentions a warehouse where 200 unaccompanied children are housed. So what are we talking about here, the separated children or the unaccompanied ones? He says they are being housed in "cages". Cages like the ones I put my dog into, or is he using the word "cages" as an incendiary word when in reality it is just chain link fencing placed together to partition areas off? You know, like the chain link fencing we put around playgrounds at schools. The fact is the place described is an initial holding area where the kids are first brought to before they go off to more permanent facilities.

But okay, let's allow the "Dreamers" to stay here - I'll agree to that. But this time the border must be completely and fully secured with a wall and an increase in border patrol people. At the same time, we must end this "birthright citizenship" idea for foreigners, something that was never envisioned by those who wrote that particular amendment. to the Constitution. This simply acts as an incentive for foreigners to come here and must be done away with.

People who are not citizens and enter the country illegally and are caught are to be kicked out of the country immediately. Due process needs to be eliminated for these people by law. All persons must enter the country at ports of entry or with visas issued by embassies abroad.

Chain migration must be eliminated also, no cousins or uncles allowed, just immediate family members of those allowed legal entry. And that insane "Visa Lottery" that takes no account of the person who wins it must also be ended.

If we were to do all those common sense things, then all our citizens would be able to live in harmony, a happy and prosperous nation we would be. Don't you agree?

Why a wall?!? Big, dirty and expensive ( to build and maintain). Why can’t Trump change the law from a misdemeanor to a felony? Cross the line and your looking at 5-10 , 2nd offense 20 yrs. Patrol the area with trucks, dogs(I like red nose pit bulls.. awesome dog) and drones ( preferably with rockets). Nothing personal of course, just that we mean business... stay out.

 

[777]

no, you don't need an electric fence and landmines, that border has been there long before there was a US or a Mexico. Re-entry after a deportation is usually a felony, for the first-time offenders, Congress would have to pass that law and they won't.

De facto one- way open border for over thirty years, it's more honest just to throw the thing wide open . Or herd them up to Canada or the US could just adopt Mexico's immigration law:

Adapt Mexico's Immigration Policy

Our welfare state is the food, they are the ants.

 

[Revmitchell]

There is absolutely nothing in the column that advocates any of those three thing. So are you admitting you are not discussing the column? You said the author is uninformed. The author is a good friend of mine and is always well reasoned in his writings.

I am sorry for your friend. The problem with the article is he over simplifies the issue by not discussing these very real agenda's.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

The OP’s friend’s article starts out…

“Let’s say your family and another are getting together for a Friday evening dinner. You both have first-graders.

“The parents are preparing the meal when the children enter the kitchen. Your child wants to play with dolls. Their child wants to play a game. They both want their way.”

But let’s be more realistic about it…

“Let’s say your family invites another over for a Friday evening dinner. You both have first-graders.

“The parents are preparing the meal when the children enter the kitchen. Intruders are stealing your child’s toys, clothes, shoes, bedding, bed, carpeting, ceiling, flooring, walls, everything they can get their hands on. Your child objects, but their child has been helping the intruders; and now his parents are about to do the same, with talk of tearing up the foundation.”

Now let’s have that mature discussion.