On Lust and Marriage

[Yeshua1]

An acquaintance of mine "came out" recently. He wanted to tell me about his decision to do so. So we met at a local bar and grill, and over chips and salsa and buffalo wings he told me about his struggle with same gender attraction. He said he just admitted he rolled a certain way and no longer felt any guilt.

He said the New Testament has done away with Leviticus, and doesn't say anything about committed relationships with the same gender. He said what was condemned was prostitution.

Then he asked me what I thought.

I was straightforward. I said lust is lust, and your salvation is not determined by your lust. Salvation is Christ's work. When He resisted the temptation to give in to the lusts of the flesh, the temptation was to turn stones into bread, not to pursue goats.

So lust is lust, whether it be the consumation of food or other strong desire. "You have friends that I know," I said, "whose assurance of salvation rests solely on the fact that they have an opposite gender attraction, and they feel that they are by nature more righteous. But that is not the case. They simply don't struggle against their own lusts like you are being expected to do."

But whether or not he thinks Christ or any New Testament writer spoke of his "identity" issue, Christ did speak of marriage, and defined it as the union of a man and a woman. "Say what you will about Leviticus, and whether or not certain terms appear anywhere in the Scriptures. If prostitution is the issue, then you've asserted that certain behaviors are for the marriage bed, and you can't say that Christ and the New Testament is silent about that."

So what of the lust? There is a remedy and a help for those who cannot contain. He needs to marry a woman.

Though lust is neither the sole nor the primary reason for its creation, marriage is a help for all kinds of lust when entered into advisedly and with the proper gravity. And there is only one kind of marriage—that between a man and a woman.

The great lie is thinking that one's appetites is the basis of his identity, and that because of that assumed identity he can't qualify for marriage.

Think that one mut control our lus by submitting to the Spirit/yeildng to Him, thinking on scripture also, and yor friend seemst o bin rebellion against God now!

 

[Aaron]

How so? Isn't celibacy an option?

Is it, or is not, better to marry than to burn?

 

[HankD]

Is it, or is not, better to marry than to burn?

Much better to marry, much better.

Of course, a lot depends on your spouse.

HankD

 

[StefanM]

Is it, or is not, better to marry than to burn?

I doubt Paul was referring to this kind of situation. The idea is that if you are not able to control yourself, then pursue a legitimate marriage relationship.

If someone with same-sex attraction gets married, that desire is not going to go away like magic. It just adds to the complicated situation.

 

[Aaron]

I doubt Paul was referring to this kind of situation. The idea is that if you are not able to control yourself, then pursue a legitimate marriage relationship.

And that's what I mean when I said you assert there is a subset of men for whom the Scriptures do not apply.

If someone with same-sex attraction gets married, that desire is not going to go away like magic. It just adds to the complicated situation.

Only you think marriage is all about the consumation of one's lust. And then how is opposite-gender attraction any different?

It's about loving your wife, raising children in the nurture and admonition of the Lord, and working together with singleminded purpose to promote the Kingdom of Heaven.

Yeah, I agree one has to be a Christian. Modern marriages are dismal no matter how one rolls.

 

[HankD]

Is it, or is not, better to marry than to burn?

Well, yes I assume a marriage between a man and a woman is meant.

HankD

 

[Aaron]

There's no other kind of marriage.

 

[StefanM]

And that's what I mean when I said you assert there is a subset of men for whom the Scriptures do not apply.

Only you think marriage is all about the consumation of one's lust. And then how is opposite-gender attraction any different?

It's about loving your wife, raising children in the nurture and admonition of the Lord, and working together with singleminded purpose to promote the Kingdom of Heaven.

Yeah, I agree one has to be a Christian. Modern marriages are dismal no matter how one rolls.

There may be a subset of men to whom a specific application of Scripture does not relate. I would phrase it that way.

The whole "Better to marry than to burn" idea is about lust in the first place, so I think it's fair to make that a focal point.

What I am trying to discourage is having a man with same sex attractions marry a woman in the hopes that this will make some sort of difference.

Why is it different than opposite-gender attraction? Well, if one assumes that the person is attracted to both sexes, perhaps the risk is lower, but if the person is primarily (or exclusively) attracted to the same sex, then that's just asking for trouble. Marriage is sufficiently difficult on its own; the extra factor of trying to "fake it 'till you make it" makes matters exponentially worse. One would assume that a straight man would not choose to marry a woman he finds unattractive in most cases, and I think that's a good general rule.

 

[HankD]

There may be a subset of men to whom a specific application of Scripture does not relate. I would phrase it that way.

The whole "Better to marry than to burn" idea is about lust in the first place, so I think it's fair to make that a focal point.

What I am trying to discourage is having a man with same sex attractions marry a woman in the hopes that this will make some sort of difference.

Why is it different than opposite-gender attraction? Well, if one assumes that the person is attracted to both sexes, perhaps the risk is lower, but if the person is primarily (or exclusively) attracted to the same sex, then that's just asking for trouble. Marriage is sufficiently difficult on its own; the extra factor of trying to "fake it 'till you make it" makes matters exponentially worse. One would assume that a straight man would not choose to marry a woman he finds unattractive in most cases, and I think that's a good general rule.

Stefan, there is a promise in the word of God:

1 John 5
4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

Any child of God who has allowed a problem similar to the one presented in the o/p develop in their heart and mind needs to feed their faith and mortify their flesh.

The source of the problem (which is thoughts of porneia and aselgeia) is the heart itself.

Mark 7
21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
22 thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lewdness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness.
23 All these evil things come from within and defile a man.

These kinds of evil thoughts (often referred to as "fantasies" by the world) must be taken captive and nipped in the bud.

2 Corinthians 10
4 For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds
5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.

I don't follow after the doctrine of Lordship salvation but LORDship sanctification is indeed God's expectation.

NOW, TODAY is the day to yield to Jesus Christ as LORD.

Romans 12
1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Then we have this amazing promise:

Revelation 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

Aaron, FWIW and if you wish, let your friend (acquaintance) know that he is on my daily prayer list.

HankD

 

[StefanM]

Stefan, there is a promise in the word of God:

1 John 5
4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

Any child of God who has allowed a problem similar to the one presented in the o/p develop in their heart and mind needs to feed their faith and mortify their flesh.

The source of the problem (which is thoughts of porneia and aselgeia) is the heart itself.

Mark 7
21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
22 thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lewdness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness.
23 All these evil things come from within and defile a man.

These kinds of evil thoughts (often referred to as "fantasies" by the world) must be taken captive and nipped in the bud.

2 Corinthians 10
4 For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds
5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.

I don't follow after the doctrine of Lordship salvation but LORDship sanctification is indeed God's expectation.

NOW, TODAY is the day to yield to Jesus Christ as LORD.

Romans 12
1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Then we have this amazing promise:

Revelation 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

Aaron, FWIW and if you wish, let your friend know that he is on my daily prayer list.

HankD

I'm not disagreeing with you. My only point is that advocating marriage as a solution has many problems. If, as your post indicates, the underlying issues are addressed, then perhaps we are looking at a different scenario.

 

[HankD]

I'm not disagreeing with you. My only point is that advocating marriage as a solution has many problems. If, as your post indicates, the underlying issues are addressed, then perhaps we are looking at a different scenario.

Thanks Stefan, I kind of addressed my post as a general overall thought, not just as a response to your post.

I'm sorry, I should have been more clear.

HankD

 

[StefanM]

Thanks Stefan, I kind of addressed my post as a general overall thought, not just as a response to your post.

I'm sorry, I should have been more clear.

HankD

No worries!

 

[Aaron]

There may be a subset of men to whom a specific application of Scripture does not relate. I would phrase it that way.

Wouldn't follow then that for some it is better to burn than to marry?

The whole "Better to marry than to burn" idea is about lust in the first place, so I think it's fair to make that a focal point.

Look at what it says. It is better to marry. What does it mean to marry? It isn't the mere satisfaction of desires.

What I am trying to discourage is having a man with same sex attractions marry a woman in the hopes that this will make some sort of difference.

Simply because there is an attraction, doesn't mean one must act upon it. In the case of the glutton, his desire for food doesn't mean he has to eat. But when he does eat, if he eats the proper things and the proper amounts at the proper times, then soon, his inordinate desires are diminished, and he finds that his tastes have changed somewhat.

One who is full loathes honey from the comb, but to the hungry even what is bitter tastes sweet.​

Do we say the glutton has no place at the table? Why then do we say one who has same-gender attractions is disqualified from marriage? (A real marriage. A union between one man and one woman.)

 

[StefanM]

Wouldn't follow then that for some it is better to burn than to marry?

Look at what it says. It is better to marry. What does it mean to marry? It isn't the mere satisfaction of desires.

Simply because there is an attraction, doesn't mean one must act upon it. In the case of the glutton, his desire for food doesn't mean he has to eat. But when he does eat, if he eats the proper things and the proper amounts at the proper times, then soon, his inordinate desires are diminished, and he finds that his tastes have changed somewhat.

One who is full loathes honey from the comb, but to the hungry even what is bitter tastes sweet.​

Do we say the glutton has no place at the table? Why then do we say one who has same-gender attractions is disqualified from marriage? (A real marriage. A union between one man and one woman.)

I think you are grossly oversimplifying matters. It's simply not this straightforward.

Besides, I'm not saying someone who has same sex attractions can't be married. I'm saying that marriage won't turn the person straight. If a person has attractions to both sexes, perhaps marriage is an option. If not attracted to the opposite sex, though, one shouldn't get married, period. That's just a disaster waiting to happen and will almost always end up with a painful divorce.

 

[Aaron]

Aaron, FWIW and if you wish, let your friend (acquaintance) know that he is on my daily prayer list.

HankD

thank you for that. And I will let him know when I see him again.

 

[Aaron]

I think you are grossly oversimplifying matters.

And I think many are overcomplicating things. We talk about "straight" and (I will say) non straight as if they're identities like gender.

They're not. We talk that way because of the psychobabble of the last century. We don't get any of these ideas from the Scriptures.

 

[StefanM]

And I think many are overcomplicating things. We talk about "straight" and (I will say) non straight as if they're identities like gender.

They're not. We talk that way because of the psychobabble of the last century. We don't get any of these ideas from the Scriptures.

We don't get the ideas in many areas from Scripture because Scripture doesn't address them in the same terms or method we might use now.

The Bible doesn't address same sex attraction, only the actions that emerge. "Identity" terms take it one step deeper into the underlying cause. It's extra-biblical, sure, but it's not unbiblical, IMO.

 

[Aaron]

There's more to say, but the administrators are living in the past and don't think the topic belongs in the open forums.

 

[annsni]

There's more to say, but the administrators are living in the past and don't think the topic belongs in the open forums.

Aaron - It has nothing to do with living in the past but trying to protect the board from bots and offensive ads. The ads key off of words that we type so that is why people will type keywords with other characters like S3x or something like that. It keeps us from seeing all sorts of offensive ads.