On what does Christianity stand?

[kyredneck]

How would one even know of that truth without scriptures though?

John Chapter 5

39​	Ye search the scriptures, because ye think that in them ye have eternal life; and these are they which bear witness of me;

1st Corinthians Chapter 3

11​	For other foundation can no man lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

 

[JonC]

We are commissioned to send forth the good news of the Gospel message, to preach and teach that message, for that is the sacred scriptures' used by the Holy Spirit to save lost sinners

No, the gospel is not the sacred Scriptures. Scripture contains the gospel account. But the gospel existed prior to the writing of the NT.

How would one even know of that truth without scriptures though?

How do you know Scripture is true?

When I say sacred scriptures refer to entire canonized books. all 66 of them

That is even more wrong than your first claim.

The gospel is not the 66 books of the Bible.

One does not have to read the entire Bible to be saved.
One does not have to know the entire Bible to be saved.
One does not even have to believe the entire Bible to be saved.

BUT one does have to believe the gospel, for it is the power of God to salvation.

The Author who inspired them can confirm their truth

So God can confirm the Bible is true but He is unable to confirm the gospel of Jesus Christ told to another person to be true?

How did God confirm the Bible is true?

To some degree the entire Bible itself is the Gospel of the Person and work of the Lord Jesus, the Promised Messiah of Genesis to the Messiah who came, and shall one day come again

No. You are talking about the gospel. The gospel is more narrow.

The Bible IS about Jesus, about redemption, and about the gospel. But the Bible is not the gosoel itself.

I ask again, if I share the gospel of Jesus Christ with a man, he repents and believes the gospel of Jesus Christ, then why is he not saved?

 

[JesusFan]

That is even more wrong than your first claim.

The gospel is not the 66 books of the Bible.

One does not have to read the entire Bible to be saved.
One does not have to know the entire Bible to be saved.
One does not even have to believe the entire Bible to be saved.

BUT one does have to believe the gospel, for it is the power of God to salvation.

To some degree the entire Bible itself is the Gospel of the Person and work of the Lord Jesus, the Promised Messiah of Genesis to the Messiah who came, and shall one day come again

So God can confirm the Bible is true but He is unable to confirm the gospel of Jesus Christ told to another person to be true?

How did God confirm the Bibke is true?

That message the person gives will in some fashion include what the bible states

You're saying Christianity stands on a Person.

That is correct.

Scripture is the testimony of that Person. You can't have One without the Other.

No bible revelation no way any can get saved, as reading in world book or in a history book life of Christ is not the power unto salvation

What of you witnessed to me without Scripture (you forgot your Bible and just explained the gospel ss you understand it) and I repent and believe. Then I, having never read any Scripture or even heard a verse of Scripture explain the gospel to another and he is saved. And he does the same.

Finally 100 people are reached in the same way and repent and believe.

Are you the only one really saved because the 100 never read or heard a verse of Scripture and only repented snd believed the gospel of Jesus Christ explained by you?

For you know of any passage that states we are saved by the Bible?

Faith comes by hearing, hearing the word of God
For the Gospel is the power of God unto salvation

faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

just saying..

The Holy Spirit works in and thru sacred scriptures to reach lost sinners, as its special revelation that saves us, not general

 

[JonC]

That message the person gives will in some fashion include what the bible states

The message the person gives will in some fashion include things I have said to others. Does that make me the gospel?

Roman Catholic doctrine contains the gospel (you may have to look real hard). Is Roman Cathokic doctrine tge gospel?

Scripture is God's revelation. This contains the gospel. But the gospel predates Scripture. It was foreshadowed in OT times and revealed in the Person and Work of Jesus Christ.


If you think you will make me change my mind that our faith stands on Christ, our "Cornerstone", you are badly mistaken.

No bible revelation no way any can get saved, as reading in world book or in a history book life of Christ is not the power unto salvation

What of you witnessed to me without Scripture (you forgot your Bible and just explained the gospel ss you understand it) and I repent and believe. Then I, having never read any Scripture or even heard a verse of Scripture explain the gospel to another and he is saved. And he does the same.

Finally 100 people are reached in the same way and repent and believe.

Are you the only one really saved because the 100 never read or heard a verse of Scripture and only repented snd believed the gospel of Jesus Christ explained by you?

For you know of any passage that states we are saved by the Bible?

 

[Aaron]

Abraham Believed God and God accounted it to him for righteousness.

Before Abraham, I am

Case closed

 

[Aaron]

Yep. This was before Christianity but Abraham believed the Promise. Our faith stands, IMHO, on Christ Himself.

Scripture is, obviously, important. In terms of Christianity I suppose the gospel is even more important. But this is how we come to a knowledge. Our faith itself stands on Christ.

You're saying Christianity stands on a Person.

That is correct.

Scripture is the testimony of that Person. You can't have One without the Other.

 

[JonC]

You're saying Christianity stands on a Person.

That is correct.

Scripture is the testimony of that Person. You can't have One without the Other.

Well....you can have the Person without the testimony and not the testimony without the Person.....but yea...I get what you are saying.

My point is that the purpose of Scripture is as a testimony of Christ. And how shall they know without a preacher? We do not live to be more Bible-like but to be more Christ-like. He, not the Bible, is the Cornerstone. But the Bible (and even our testimony) is important.

 

[Aaron]

Well....you can have the Person without the testimony and not the testimony without the Person.....but yea...I get what you are saying.

My point is that the purpose of Scripture is as a testimony of Christ. And how shall they know without a preacher? We do not live to be more Bible-like but to be more Christ-like. He, not the Bible, is the Cornerstone. But the Bible (and even our testimony) is important.

There's no real difference. To accept the testimony is to accept the Person, and vice versa.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

No bible revelation no way any can get saved, as reading in world book or in a history book life of Christ is not the power unto salvation

faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

just saying..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The Holy Spirit works in and thru sacred scriptures to reach lost sinners, as its special revelation that saves us, not general

its both actually

And it is Gods grace that saves but we have to recieve it, he will not force it

God uses all kinds of things, His word. General revelation. People. to help draw us to him

 

[JonC]

The Holy Spirit works in and thru sacred scriptures to reach lost sinners, as its special revelation that saves us, not general

I disagree. It is Christ who saves us.

You did not answer my question, though.

If 100 people repent and believe because a preacher explained the gospel of Jesus Christ without using a Bible would they be saved?

What if a missionary reaches one person, but a year later that one person reaches his entire tribe with the gospel message but not a Bible and without Scripture. Would that person and his tribe, who repented and believed the gospel of Jesus Christ remain lost for lack of Scripture?

Faith comes by hearing, hearing the word of God
For the Gospel is the power of God unto salvation

Wait......what did you say is the power of God unto salvation? The Bible or the gospel?

(BTW, it's a lowercase "g" unless you are talking about a specific gosoel account....like John's Gospel).

 

[JesusFan]

Wait......what did you say is the power of God unto salvation? The Bible or the gospel?

(BTW, it's a lowercase "g" unless you are talking about a specific gosoel account....like John's Gospel).

The Gospel that is found only in the sacred scriptures themselves

I disagree. It is Christ who saves us.

You did not answer my question, though.

If 100 people repent and believe because a preacher explained the gospel of Jesus Christ without using a Bible would they be saved?

What if a missionary reaches one person, but a year later that one person reaches his entire tribe with the gospel message but not a Bible and without Scripture. Would that person and his tribe, who repented and believed the gospel of Jesus Christ remain lost for lack of Scripture?

The Holy Spirit alone can do His work thru the Bible to make lost sinners "wake up" and enable them to get saved by the preaching of the message of the gospel

 

[JonC]

The Gospel that is found only in the sacred scriptures themselves

So it is nothing we can actually share.

I disagree. The gosoel of Jesus Christ IS communicated in Scripture. But the gospel itself is the message, not the met

I believe a preacher can explain redemption...explain the gospel of Jesus Christ to a person and if that person repents and believes in Jesus then that person is saved.

One problem you have is you condemn people to Hell who actually believe for lack of a Bible.

No, you are wrong. God saves. The "good news" is communicated in many ways - in Scripture, by other believers, in media. Paul praised God (wrongly in your view) that lost preachers in it for their own gain preach the gospel and men are saved.

The Holy Spirit alone can do His work thru the Bible to make lost sinners "wake up" and enable them to get saved by the preaching of the message of the gospel

But God can't work through an evangelist to save men?

You are wrong. When we hear the gospel presented, even without Scripture, we hear the gospel message. It is the gospel that is the power of God unto salvation.

People do not first have to have the Spirit wake them up by reading the Bible in order to be enabled to get saved by the preaching of the gospel.

Where on God's green Earth did you ever get that idea??? I am not aware of any church or organization that teaches such foolishness.

Oh, @JesusFan , I almost forgot....you may find this interesting.

The gospel ( εὐαγγέλιον ) originally meant the message. It wasn't until the 2nd century that "gosoel" came to mean both the message and Scripture.

But the gospel itself is not Scripture. It is the "good news", the message, and is communicated in various ways. Sure, it is communicated by Scripture. But typically the lost are reached through other ways....like the witness of a friend explaining to them this message. There may be some non-Christians who read the Binle and come to Christ, but personally I do not think this is the norm.

So it is nothing we can actually share.

I disagree. The gosoel of Jesus Christ IS communicated in Scripture. But the gospel itself is the message, not the met

I believe a preacher can explain redemption...explain the gospel of Jesus Christ to a person and if that person repents and believes in Jesus then that person is saved.

One problem you have is you condemn people to Hell who actually believe for lack of a Bible.

No, you are wrong. God saves. The "good news" is communicated in many ways - in Scripture, by other believers, in media. Paul praised God (wrongly in your view) that lost preachers in it for their own gain preach the gospel and men are saved.

There must be in some fashion the gospel message of the scriptures, as one must reference that truth , as that is what the Holy Spirit uses as His fuel to save lost sinners

But God can't work through an evangelist to save men?

You are wrong. When we hear the gospel presented, even without Scripture, we hear the gospel message. It is the gospel that is the power of God unto salvation.

People do not first have to have the Spirit wake them up by reading the Bible in order to be enabled to get saved by the preaching of the gospel.

Where on God's green Earth did you ever get that idea??? I am not aware of any church or organization that teaches such foolishness.

Ask J vernon Magee, ask Dr Rice, Spurgeon, Moody as all would have stated that we preach Christ of the bible , and use the bible to teach that truth

Oh, @JesusFan , I almost forgot....you may find this interesting.

The gospel ( εὐαγγέλιον ) originally meant the message. It wasn't until the 2nd century that "gosoel" came to mean both the message and Scripture.

But the gospel itself is not Scripture. It is the "good news", the message, and is communicated in various ways. Sure, it is communicated by Scripture. But typically the lost are reached through other ways....like the witness of a friend explaining to them this message. There may be some non-Christians who read the Binle and come to Christ, but personally I do not think this is the norm.

A person cannot be saved until/unless they knew the gospel message, can be thru spoken word, a book, a movie etc, but still must know that Jesus died for their sins and by the cross and resurrection they can now get saved

What you seem not to understand is that the gospel existed before the NT was written. Many were saved without hearing of Scripture or even the direct teachings of an Apostle (read Acts).

One person heard the gospel and told it to another, and so on.

It is the same gospel message that is communicated in the Bible, but one does not (as you stated) have to read the Bible then hear a preacher to be saved.

If you tell a person the gospel message and that person trueky believes in Jesus then that person is saved. Following that I am sure that this new Chriatian will study the Bible. But he did not have to read the Bible to be saved. Jesus saves.


We do preach Jesus of the Bible. But Jesus is not who He is because the Bible says so. The Bible says so because of who He is.

But we are talking about the gospel message. It is the gospel that is in Scripture but many have been saved without hearing Scripture (they heard the gospel told to them by somebody, probably not even quoted verses).

If you witness to a person and that person believes in Jesus then that person is saved.


Yes, that is my point. Peoole were and are saved through the gospel message. And this is in Scripture.

So if one does not in any fashipn use scriptures, how they be giving to another the gospel?

There must be in some fashion the gospel message of the scriptures, as one must reference that truth , as that is what the Holy Spirit uses as His fuel to save lost sinners

What you seem not to understand is that the gospel existed before the NT was written. Many were saved without hearing of Scripture or even the direct teachings of an Apostle (read Acts).

One person heard the gospel and told it to another, and so on.

It is the same gospel message that is communicated in the Bible, but one does not (as you stated) have to read the Bible then hear a preacher to be saved.

If you tell a person the gospel message and that person trueky believes in Jesus then that person is saved. Following that I am sure that this new Chriatian will study the Bible. But he did not have to read the Bible to be saved. Jesus saves.

Ask J vernon Magee, ask Dr Rice, Spurgeon, Moody as all would have stated that we preach Christ of the bible , and use the bible to teach that truth

We do preach Jesus of the Bible. But Jesus is not who He is because the Bible says so. The Bible says so because of who He is.

But we are talking about the gospel message. It is the gospel that is in Scripture but many have been saved without hearing Scripture (they heard the gospel told to them by somebody, probably not even quoted verses).

If you witness to a person and that person believes in Jesus then that person is saved.

A person cannot be saved until/unless they knew the gospel message, can be thru spoken word, a book, a movie etc, but still must know that Jesus died for their sins and by the cross and resurrection they can now get saved

Yes, that is my point. Peoole were and are saved through the gospel message. And this is in Scripture.

 

[JonC]

So if one does not in any fashipn use scriptures, how they be giving to another the gospel?

They can explain redemption to the person without using Scripture, like it was done before people had the NT.

Here is an example-

You meet Bob and share the gospel. You don't have your Bible but adequately explain the gospel to him. Bob believes, he is saved.

Before Bob gets a chance to pick up a Bible he shares the gosoel with Ann. Ann belueves and is saved.

Ann tells a group of friends (5 of them) the gospel and they are saved. Ann then goes to buy a Bible.

Each of those 5 friends tell 10 of their friends the gospel and they are saved.

That is 57 people saved who encountered Jesus but not Scripture. They DID hear your summary of the gospel, but not Scripture.