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On whose and what authority do we interpret Scripture?

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by Matt Black, Dec 3, 2004.

  1. Archeryaddict

    Archeryaddict New Member

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    I do not try to interprit i just try to comprehend what the scripture says.
     
  2. Archeryaddict

    Archeryaddict New Member

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    Interprit the word coy please :D
     
  3. Matt Black

    Matt Black Well-Known Member
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    [​IMG]

    But seriously, though, you still haven't said what YOUR interpretation is; your particular English translation says 'perfect' but what do YOU say it means and with what implications for eg: the gifts of the Spirit, cessationism etc?

    Yours in Christ

    Matt
     
  4. Archeryaddict

    Archeryaddict New Member

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    COY chambers oxygen control

    coy

    adj 1: affectedly modest or shy especially in a playful or provocative way [syn: demure, overmodest] 2: showing marked and often playful or irritating evasiveness or reluctance to make a definite or committing statement; "a politician coy about his intentions" 3: modestly or warily rejecting approaches or overtures; "like a wild young colt, very inquisitive but very coy and not to be easily cajoled"

    [​IMG] [​IMG] coy pond [​IMG]

    see where I am going with this
    what meaning of the word best fits how and why it was used initally?
     
  5. Matt Black

    Matt Black Well-Known Member
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    I think you'll find the pondlife to be spelt K-O-I.

    I would say your 'coy' is either #1 or #2 above - but that really depends on YOUR intentions...which can be precisely the point when it comes to Biblical scholarship too.

    Now I've answered your 'coy' question, please pin your colours to the mast once and for all and tell me what you think 'teleios' means

    Yours in Christ

    Matt
     
  6. Archeryaddict

    Archeryaddict New Member

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  7. Archeryaddict

    Archeryaddict New Member

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    Mature.

    fully developed.

    grounded in the word.
     
  8. Archeryaddict

    Archeryaddict New Member

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  9. Matt Black

    Matt Black Well-Known Member
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    And what is that describing?

    Yours in Christ

    Matt
     
  10. Matt Black

    Matt Black Well-Known Member
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    Leaving to one side for the moment (until Archeryaddict gets back) the example of the interpretative problem of I Cor 13:10 re the charismata, the reason for my starting this and the other thread on sola Scriptura and inerrancy is that I am concerned about SS being used as a source of the kind of authority that we're talking about here.

    Surely an authority is something you go to for answers, in particular to decide difficult questions such as choosing between interpretations. In saying that you (the hypothetical you) recognise no authority other than Scripture, are you not actually saying that you recognise the right of no-one but yourself to interpret it? In other words, that your own interpretation of Scripture is the only authority you can accept?

    It's always seemed to me that the evangelical tradition is the authority to which evangelicals defer 'by default' as it were. Scripture stands behind that authority for all of us, it seems to me, as the record of humanity's encounters with God and in particular as the primary source of knowledge of Christ, but is it actually an authority when it's so open to multiple interpretations? If not, what is the alternative?

    Yours in Christ

    Matt
     
  11. Archeryaddict

    Archeryaddict New Member

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    Hello Matt we have been having a very in-depth discussion about this very thing Here
    http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/28/2995/2.html
    I am going to paraphrase the passage of scripture so you may get a better understanding of how I understand the passage scripture.

    lets read the whole chapter from the simple english version.
    1 Corinthians 13

    1. Even if I speak with human languages or the language of angels, but do not have loving concern, I have only become like the noisy sound of a gong or the ringing sound from cymbals.
    2. I may have the ability to prophesy, know all secrets, possess all knowledge, and have the kind of faith which can move mountains, but if I don't have concern for others, I am nothing.
    3. I could give away everything I own and sacrifice my body, so that I could brag about it, but if I did not have love, I have gained nothing.
    4. A loving person is patient; is kind; is not jealous; is not boastful; is not proud;
    5. is not rude; is not interested only in himself; is even-tempered; does not hold grudges;
    6. is not happy when someone else does wrong; is happy when truth wins;
    7. never quits; always trusts; always hopes ; always keeps on going.
    8. Love lasts forever. There are such things as prophecies, but they will disappear. There are such things as languages, but they will stop. There is such a thing as knowledge , but it will disappear.
    9. We only know portions of things . We prophesy in parts,
    10. but when that which is complete (Mature, Fully developed) comes, the parts will disappear.
    11. When I was a child, I used to talk about the things that a child would talk about. I thought and reasoned as a child does, but now that I have become an adult, I have put aside the ways of children.
    12. At this time, we see only a blurred image in the mirror. At the time of maturity, we will see plainly--as one person looking at another's face. Now I know things only
     
  12. Archeryaddict

    Archeryaddict New Member

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    Many people misconstrue that this verse is speaking of Christs second coming if this were the case the veree would read more like...
    10. but when He, who is Perfect comes, the parts will disappear.

    JMO

    hopefully this makes sence to you
     
  13. Matt Black

    Matt Black Well-Known Member
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    Yes it does, but I disagree with your interpretation - who is right/ who will arbitrate between us? That's the question of this thread...any answers?

    Yours in Christ

    Matt
     
  14. Archeryaddict

    Archeryaddict New Member

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    I guess we will have to disagree then.

    Would you agree or disagree that in this chapter that Paul is speaking to the church about Christian love?
     
  15. Matt Black

    Matt Black Well-Known Member
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    I would agree that the prime context of the chapter is agape love; but the chapter itself is a lacuna within Paul's longer discourse on spiritual gifts in 12 & 14.

    To go to your first paragraph, is it satisfactory to 'agree to disagree' from the POV of doctrine ( I agree it is satifactory to do so from a fellowship and pastoral POV - within limits); does that not amount to an abandonment of the quest for objective Truth? Clearly one of us - quite possibly both - have to be wrong in our interpretation on this Scripture. This throws me back to the question in my preceding post - who is authorised to arbitrate between us in the interests of establising that objective Truth?

    Yours in Christ

    Matt
     
  16. Archeryaddict

    Archeryaddict New Member

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    I am not going to let one word leave me baffled I understand it by the rest of the context in the whole chapter and move on. as it is time to move on from discussing it. too much of my time has already been waysted on this single word which evidently has different meanings to different people.
    Nuff said, time to move on now.

    Have a great day and God Bless!
     
  17. Matt Black

    Matt Black Well-Known Member
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    This isn't about one word - that was just an example and let us indeed move on from it - but about who has the final say in what Scripture means where there is a disagreement over meaning such as we have had here. Let's now talk about that question...

    Yours in Christ

    Matt
     
  18. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    No one has the final say -- we let the Word speak for itself. Disagreeing on a non-essential point like this is not fatal for Christianity nor for the case of the Bible being the final authority.

    It does not bother me that Christians disagree on this and other non-essential issues. Matt, it seems like your argument against the Bible as the final authority is that people disagree. But human disagreement on a non-essential in the Bible does not make a point for the case against the Bible being the final authority. We just disagree and move on (as long as it's non-essential).
     
  19. Matt Black

    Matt Black Well-Known Member
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    But what is an 'essential'? Is it essential, for example, that Catholics interpret I Peter 3:21 as giving a salvific effect to baptism by 'letting the Word speak for itself' whereas Baptists don't? What does this mean for soteriology - surely the matter of the method of one's salvation is 'essential'?!

    Yours in Christ

    Matt
     
  20. Matt Black

    Matt Black Well-Known Member
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    Marcia, what's your take on what I posted yesterday?

    Yours in Christ

    Matt
     
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