On YOUR Dime: Congressmen Lease Luxury Cars

[Andre]

Second, I don't see how being dog-eat-dog competitive is wrong in any sorta Biblical sense.

I certainly see lots of Scriptural evidence against this position:

43Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, 44and whoever wants to be first must be slave of all. 45For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve...

Granted, this text is a response to James and John wanting to exercize power in a wordly way. So perhaps the connection to "dog-eat-dog" competition seems a little indirect. But it seems to me that there is a connection.

The phase "dog-eat-dog" smacks of people aggessively pursuing power. I see Jesus as describing a Kingdom where this "wordly" model is turned on its head.


34But they kept silent, for on the way (X)they had discussed with one another which of them was the greatest. 35Sitting down, He called the twelve and said to them, "(Y)If anyone wants to be first, he shall be last of all and servant of all."

 

[Bro. Curtis]

The guy who used his talents to make the most was given the lazy man's talent, the exact opposite of welfare. Lot's wealth was restored, and then some. Scripture warns against serving money, not earning it.

 

[Andre]

The guy who used his talents to make the most was given the lazy man's talent, the exact opposite of welfare.

This answer begs an important question. It implcitly assumes that the recipients of welfare are "lazy". I think this is a highly questionable assumption, although I cannot specifically disprove it.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

What pecentage of welfare recipients are physically able to work, do you suppose ? I say at least 70%. And I don't find it improbable to think it could be as high as 90%.

And I believe scripture to be crystal clear on how to treat those who refuse to work.

 

[Andre]

What pecentage of welfare recipients are physically able to work, do you suppose ? I say at least 70%. And I don't find it improbable to think it could be as high as 90%.

And I believe scripture to be crystal clear on how to treat those who refuse to work.

Being physically able to work is only part of the picture. There are people who are mentally unable to work, through no fault of their own. And I agree that scripture is clear about those who refuse to work. But it is entitrely unclear what fraction of welfare recipients are in that category.

 

[Revmitchell]

Being physically able to work is only part of the picture. There are people who are mentally unable to work, through no fault of their own. And I agree that scripture is clear about those who refuse to work. But it is entitrely unclear what fraction of welfare recipients are in that category.

I do not know if this is where you are coming from, but I have talked with a number of libs who are making attempts to place a large number of homeless and welfare recipients into this category. It seems if we are forced to admit the truth that some folks are just in poverty because fo their own making then socialism/communism is harder to push forward.

 

[Andre]

It seems if we are forced to admit the truth that some folks are just in poverty because fo their own making then socialism/communism is harder to push forward.

Well, of course some people are lazy, no one is denying this.

 

[Revmitchell]

Well, of course some people are lazy, no one is denying this.

It isnt always about laziness. So many times it is addiction related (which by the way is not a disease). Some times it is some other form of responsibility. Even the hardest worker can place himself in a bad postion and refuse to make the necessary changes and sacrifices to get out of it. It encompasses much more than laziness. But more often than not it is related to personal irresponsibility in some form.

 

[Andre]

But more often than not it is related to personal irresponsibility in some form.

Please tell us how you know this.

And how do you know that addictions are not diseases.

 

[Revmitchell]

Please tell us how you know this.

And how do you know that addictions are not diseases.

I have been an alcoholic, a drug attic and homeless. Addiction counseling is 4 billion dollar a year industry. And loose unnecessary terms such as "disease" keeps them coming back. I set it all down in one day and never looked back. Such behavior is irresponsibility and nothing more.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Being physically able to work is only part of the picture. There are people who are mentally unable to work, through no fault of their own. And I agree that scripture is clear about those who refuse to work. But it is entitrely unclear what fraction of welfare recipients are in that category.

Scripture is also quite clear on how Christians are to care for the infirm, so this has nothing to do with my question.

So, take a guess. Humor me.

 

[Andre]

I have been an alcoholic, a drug attic and homeless. Addiction counseling is 4 billion dollar a year industry. And loose unnecessary terms such as "disease" keeps them coming back. I set it all down in one day and never looked back. Such behavior is irresponsibility and nothing more.

Your experience is indeed your experience. But one cannot extrapolate from one experience or even a handful of people.

If we are going to do more than merely speculate, we need to give broader-based evidence than this.

And I will add, that while this may not be an issue for you, there is a powerful motive for us to see the poor as being responsible for their own state. It legitimizes our holding on to our stuff.

 

[Andre]

Scripture is also quite clear on how Christians are to care for the infirm, so this has nothing to do with my question.

So, take a guess. Humor me.

I assume you are asking me to guess at how many welfare recipients are truly unable to work or do not have the opportunity to work.

If I had to guess, I would say 30%.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

So you'll give me that the system is lopsided ?

 

[Revmitchell]

Your experience is indeed your experience. But one cannot extrapolate from one experience or even a handful of people.

Wrong. My experience is evidence of what I am saying. Not was i one but I hung out with them.

If we are going to do more than merely speculate, we need to give broader-based evidence than this.

If there is any speculation I would say it is coming form someone who has never been there.

And I will add, that while this may not be an issue for you, there is a powerful motive for us to see the poor as being responsible for their own state. It legitimizes our holding on to our stuff.

Your suspicion is not founded on anything other than suspicion. And giving aid to an addict before he/she is actually ready will only enable them to stay where they are. The appropriate response is to leave them in the pig pen until they come to their senses on their own much liek the prodigal. Any intervention prior to that only hurts them and is a waste of resources. But of course if you need something to prop up a socialist/comminist agenda then this certainly is a good one to raise emotions with.

 

[Andre]

So you'll give me that the system is lopsided ?

Indeed, I will join you in any efforts to get freeloaders of the public purse.

Well, there ya go, we probably can agree on something after all. Perhaps there is hope.....

 

[Magnetic Poles]

And liberalism is to be defeated not lived with.

A unipolar society is a totalitarian, one party society. Thanks for warning us about your 'vision' for America.

While you're busy 'defeating' liberalism, thank a liberal for such innovations as the weekend, child labor laws, safer automobiles, cleaner air & water, ubiquitous access to affordable electricity, and a myriad of other 'liberal' innovations.

 

[Revmitchell]

A unipolar society is a totalitarian, one party society. Thanks for warning us about your 'vision' for America.

While you're busy 'defeating' liberalism, thank a liberal for such innovations as the weekend, child labor laws, safer automobiles, cleaner air & water, ubiquitous access to affordable electricity, and a myriad of other 'liberal' innovations.

:laugh: :wavey:

 

[poncho]

:laugh: :wavey:

We got one party more than the totalitarians. Bully for us huh Rev?

 

[Magnetic Poles]

We got one party more than the totalitarians. Bully for us huh Rev?

If you guys like one party rule, you'd love Iran, China, or maybe Cuba.