Once saved, always saved?

[Scott J]

John 10 makes an interesting parallel study to your Luke 8:13 objection.

In John 10, Jesus declares that His sheep hear His voice and follow Him. They are identified by their actions. They are His sheep therefore they follow Him. (Very consistent with Romans 6)

In Luke 8:13, false professors and true professors are also identified by their actions. The seed on rocky ground quickly withers and dies. Its activity demonstrate that it has no root. If it had taken root it would have grown.

In both cases, the true believer is identified by continuing behaviour.

 

[Rev. G]

hrhema:

How wrong you are, friend! Salvation commences with God, is sustained by God, and is preserved by God.

Mark:

Again... "Even the demons BELIEVE, and they tremble!"

Simon believed something, that doesn't mean he trusted Christ for salvation. It is possible to be baptized and not be a true believer, isn't it? Simon Magus was a heretic!!! Read some church history, friend. Not only that, but do some exegetical work on the topic of "belief".

Rev. G

 

[Rev. G]

Brian T:

It is possible to HEAR the Word without trusting Christ for salvation. Only true believers bear fruit (fruit of the Spirit).

Rev. G

 

[Trust in the Lord]

I don't believe in the OSAS...I think it is misleading to alot of Christians...

Explain to me about Ananias and Sapphira, where they not believers in Christ? What got in there way? Did they go to heaven or hell? Read Acts Chapter 5:1-11

Could anyone explain to me how this fits in the OSAS theory...

Thanks

 

[Rev. G]

Being struck dead is not to be equated with losing one's salvation.

It is possible that they were not truly believers, thus Peter asks ("Why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit?"). Or it could be that they were influenced by the evil one to sin, and God held them accountable right on the spot.

If God held us accountable right on the sport, you and I and everyone else would have died a long time ago.

Rev. G

 

[mountainrun]

hrhema,
You seem to believe that "overcoming" involves works. Your are mistaken. If this were that case, we would be saved by our works, wouldn't we?

=========
1st John 5:3. This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,
4. for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith.
5. Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.

Rev. 12:11. They overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony; they did not love their lives so much as to shrink from death.
============

We overcome by the blood of the Lamb, that is, by faith.

MR

 

[hrhema]

Rev. G.

I don't know if we both read the same Bibles but mine says Sin cannot enter into Heaven. That those who lie will not enter Heaven. Ananias and Sapphira both lied to the Holy Ghost. God judged them. There was no repentance. There is no way you will ever make me believe anyone who has lied to the Holy Ghost and goes out into eternity immediately was saved. If they went to Heaven then other scriptures are nothing but lies.

I cannot understand why people will defend an doctrine even in the face of scriptures which refute it.

When Paul was dealing with the Corinthian church concerning the man committing incest with his step mom he told them to hand him over to Satan that Satan could buffet him so he would be saved in the day of the Lord. Now according to the once saved always saved doctrine since this man was a believer there would be no reason to turn him over to Satan because he would die and go to Heaven no matter if he kept sleeping with his step mom or not but that is not what Paul said. He told them to hand him over to Satan so he could receive buffeting and this would make him stop sinning so he could be saved in the end.
IN II Corinthians we find out the guy did stop sinning and he repented. Paul said so he could be saved so it is very obvious that what he was doing was going to cause him not to be saved.

Paul wrote in Romans to believers: "You can choose sin, which leads to death." This was talking about eternal death because just a little further he said "In those days when you were slaves of sin, you weren't concerned with doing what was right. And what was the result? It was not good, since now you are ashamed of the things you used to so, things that end in ETERNAL DOOM.
But now you are free from the power of sin and have become slaves of God. Now you do THOSE THINGS that lead to HOLINESS AND RESULT IN ETERNAL LIFE. Now isn't that strange. Paul said sin leads to eternal doom but doing certain things lead to Holiness and result in eternal life. So it sounds like living right is part of being saved to me. Then in Chapter 8 it says, "so dear Christian friends, you have no obligation whatsoever to do waht you sinful nature urges you to do. For if YOU KEEP FOLLOWING IT, YOU WILL PERISH, but if through the power of the Holy Spirit you turn from it and its evil deeds, you will live." So again it sounds like to me you must live right to be saved.

 

[Grammy1013]

Originally posted by hrhema:
[qb]Rev. G.

I don't know if we both read the same Bibles but mine says Sin cannot enter into Heaven. That those who lie will not enter Heaven. Ananias and Sapphira both lied to the Holy Ghost. God judged them. There was no repentance. There is no way you will ever make me believe anyone who has lied to the Holy Ghost and goes out into eternity immediately was saved. If they went to Heaven then other scriptures are nothing but lies.

Wow ...... I was under the impression that the blood of Christ covered our sins. Maybe these two DID go to hell, I don't know. What I DO know is that I TRY to live a holy life, but I still sin. Are you saying that if I commit one of those sins and die before I get a chance to repent that I'm going to hell? whew ....

[ September 20, 2002, 04:15 PM: Message edited by: Grammy1013 ]

 

[hrhema]

So there has to be a difference in the laws of God. For in Romans Paul speaks about sin bringing eternal doom even to the believer but he turns right around in Galatians and tell us that we can never be saved by obeying the law. IN the first part of Galatians he called them Jewish regulations. What was the Jewish regulations. Cermonial laws such as circumcision. Hand washing. Going to the synagogue. ANimal sacrifices. Dietary laws or Kosher. He went on in the fourth chapter of Galatians and said to the Gentiles that they are trying to find favor with God by observing days or times or seasons.
Yet, in the 5th Chapter of Galatians Paul speaking to the Gentiles about following the desires of their sinful nature said to them< "Let me tell you again, as I have before, that anyone living that sort of life will NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD. Then in Chapter 6 Paul said, "Those who live only to satisfy their own sinful desires will harves the CONSEQUENCES OF DECAY AND DEATH.

 

[hrhema]

Sorry but my computer posted the last before I was finished.

"But those who LIVE TO PLEASE THE SPIRIT WILL HARVEST EVERLASTING LIFE FROM THE SPIRIT."

 

[hrhema]

Grammy:

Paul wrote that the Holy Spirit within us is our conscience to convict us when we sin. It is our choice to ignore that immediate response. How long does it take to say, Please forgive me?"
If we don't need to ask for forgiveness when we sin then Jesus should have never gave us the prayer he did and Paul should never have written that Jesus is our advocate with the Father. He is our mediator. Why? If it is not necessary to ask forgiveness then why does he need to mediate. His shed blood should be all that is necessary but that is not what is written. John said IF WE SIN WE HAVE AN ADVOCATE.

 

[Grammy1013]

This thing seems to be posting by itself today ... sorry for duplicate.

[ September 20, 2002, 06:57 PM: Message edited by: Grammy1013 ]

 

[Grammy1013]

Originally posted by Grammy1013:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by hrhema:
Grammy:

Paul wrote that the Holy Spirit within us is our conscience to convict us when we sin. It is our choice to ignore that immediate response. How long does it take to say, Please forgive me?"
If we don't need to ask for forgiveness when we sin then Jesus should have never gave us the prayer he did and Paul should never have written that Jesus is our advocate with the Father. He is our mediator. Why? If it is not necessary to ask forgiveness then why does he need to mediate. His shed blood should be all that is necessary but that is not what is written. John said IF WE SIN WE HAVE AN ADVOCATE.

</font>[/QUOTE]Then what you are saying is that if I don't SAY "forgive me" after I sin and before I die, I go to hell. Right?