No, that makes it acceptance of a gift.Originally posted by Servent:
If a person can lose their salvation then they must do somthing to keep it, dosent that make it works?
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No, that makes it acceptance of a gift.Originally posted by Servent:
If a person can lose their salvation then they must do somthing to keep it, dosent that make it works?
If "the law" says "do this" that implies a choice, don't ya think? </font>[/QUOTE]it implies that we are responsible to God, it is something of a paradox that simply means that we are held accountable for what we do even if we are a slave to sin we will be judged as the sinner we are. unless God shows mercy on who He has chosen, then the others will be shown justice.Originally posted by Johnv:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by massdak:
The law says do this and live. do you believe that you could keep the law with your free will choice?
if that was the case the gospel certainly would not be good newsOriginally posted by Michael Wrenn:
massdak,
I explain it the way Romans Chapter 2 does. Those who have not heard the Gospel will be judged on the use they make of the light they have.
Makes a lot more sense and is more in accord with God's mercy, love, and other attributes than with the belief that all those millions who never heard of Christ will burn in an eternal hell.
katy what is it that you believe in, how do you define your faith?Originally posted by Katy:
I was told not to post anymore because I am not a Baptist, but.. I am thinking that in this particular thread, that I might be able to post since I originated it.
Once Saved, Always Saved is a doctrine that I have always been taught, so it is just me,reading my bible by myself without someone to teach it to me, is where I get the idea that it isnt in the bible.
As far as those scriptures referring to persecution, yes, I understand that... and those that persevere through that persecution will be the ones who are saved.. Sure if I am being persecuted and I denounce the name of Christ, I wont be saved.
I guess I can understand as well about how if you try to talk away from God, GOd will come and get you. AS of yet, whenever I have backslidden, I have always started to search again not long after. God isnt letting me walk away. There are times when I wish I didnt believe, but I cant NOT believe in Him. A lot of it is fear, but a lot of it is that I have always felt connected to God, even as a small child. I had "quiet times" and my "prayer closet" even before I knew it was biblical to do so.. so I guess I can understand not being able to walk away, in that I dont think I could ever walk away totally. The Holy Spirit would always be whispering to me, if you know what I mean.
Its kind of hard though, because I know so many people who appeared to be way more spiritually mature than I who have just fallen away, and its almost as though they hate God now. My old Youth Leader, who used to be an incredible inspiration to me, is no longer following the Lord. The last time I spoke with him, he was very very rude to me. It makes me really sad because he really did worship God with all his heart. If you met him now though, you would definately say he needed his soul saved.
I guess Im pretty undecided for right now.
Doesnt it say somewhere in the old testament that God divorced Israel or something like that? Wouldnt that be like giving up some of his people?
same question to you what do you believe saves a person? tell me how do you define true faith?Originally posted by Michael Wrenn:
Ransom,
Your declaring it a false assertion does not make it so. Millions have believed it to be true; I mentioned some of them before--Quakers, Salvationists, Wesleyans, Anabaptists, etc.
You said, "What you are saying is that even though God hates idolatry, if an idolator is an especially good idolator, God will accept him. That is absurd and contradictory to the jealous nature of God revealed in Scripture."
That is NOT what I'm saying, and you know it; that is a gross mischaracterization. Further, you have apparently not understood the message of Romans 2.
Those who go to hell do so because they do not choose to follow the light that is in them; if they do choose to follow it, more will be forthcoming. As I said, God judges them based on the use they make of the light they have--that is the message of Romans 2.
Sending missionaries condemns no one to hell; their destiny still depends on the choices they make, as does ours.
God knows the heart, and He judges accordingly.
The differences between the two points of view being presented here are as clear as day and night--and Calvinism is the night, pitch black and foreboding.
If OSAS is true and the people who fall away were never saved to begin with.I to also believe once saved always saved,but I also believe that if a persons backslides (as some call it)or falls away or continues to sin that person may not have be saved in the first place.If a person is truly born again why would they ever turn away from God,Knowing what Christ did for us.
Yes Katy God did divorce Israel. He made them like the Gentile and when Christ came to this earth, He came for His lost sheep (Israel) who was now Gentile. Because of this, it gave opportunity to born Gentile to receive of gift of Eternal life through His ultimate sacrifice.Originally posted by Katy:
Doesnt it say somewhere in the old testament that God divorced Israel or something like that? Wouldnt that be like giving up some of his people?
You are correct in asserting that the General Baptists did not hold to an eternal security position. This is because of the influences they had from Europeon Anabaptists who were highly arminian.Originally posted by Michael Wrenn:
Katy,
I don't believe in OSAS, and neither did the first Baptists in England--the General Baptists.
There is a denomination of General Baptists in the USA, headquartered in Poplar Bluff, Missouri. I don't know whether or not they have churches in Michigan.
There are others also: Free Will Baptists, as someone mentioned, and other groups.
The American Baptist Churches, USA, are open to both Calvinistic (OSAS) and Arminian (non-OSAS) beliefs.
If I can be of further help, please let me know.
may i suggest that you do a search and look at some of the concerns regarding altar calls, this may help you understand somethings regarding human fairness vs. Gods Holy mercy and judgments. our lack of understanding of Gods views on mans accountability especially given our inability to live a sinless life, this may seem unfair in human terms.Originally posted by Katy:
Sorry.. I shoudl have previewed my post. It came out ALL Wrong..
It doesnt seem fair that God would send someone to hell who didnt believe Christ died for their sins, if they had never heard of Christ in the first place..
that is what I meant to say..
It is very fair that if you dont chose God that you would go to hell.