"Once Saved, Always Saved"

[Samuel Owen]

We were having a discussion about this in a Bible study. There are varying thoughts about this doctrine, and I would like to have the correct interpretation, or thought behind it.

I need this for further study, and I would prefer a response form a minister, or someone who is knowledgeable in the doctrines interpretation.

 

[canadyjd]

Once saved, always saved (OSAS) is one way of referring to the doctrine of "eternal security"; that is if a person has been genuinely saved (having the presence of the indwelling Holy Spirit), then that person cannot "lose" that salvation.

There are many passages used to support the doctrine.

John 10:27-30 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; (28) and I give eternal life to them, and they shall never perish; and no one shall snatch them out of My hand. (29) My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. (30)I and the Father are one."

The problem arises, IMHO, is trying to determine who has a genuine salvation. We should avoid declaring someone to be saved, or unsaved, based on what they have done (or not done) in the past (i.e. walked the isle and said "the sinner's prayer").

Salvation is spoken of in scripture as posessing a transformed life. If you are not living a transformed life after your "profession" of faith, you should have no assurance of your salvation and Christians should not give you assurance of your salvation based on the "sinner's prayer".

It could be that the person was genuinely saved, but has strayed. In that case, God disciplines those He loves and will bring that person back.

It could be that the person was never genuinely saved, merely saying words without an inner transformation. In that case, it could be inappropriate;and perhaps contradict the work of Holy Spirit in bringing the person to conviction for sins; by giving them assurance of their salvation when they should not have any.

good luck with the bible study

peace to youraying:

 

[Tom Butler]

Samuel, welcome to the Baptist Board. I am going to request that the moderator move this thread to the "Other Christian Denominations" category, since only Baptists are allowed to post in this one.

You are welcome here, and will have plenty of opportunity to discuss almost any subject that you'd like in the non-Baptist categories.

 

[Revmitchell]

1Pe 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
1Pe 1:4 to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you,
1Pe 1:5 who by God's power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time

 

[Allan]

I agree with both canadyjd and Revmitchell.

The phrase "Once Saved Always Saved" is a theological view that has been simplified to one sentence rendering concerning the doctrine of Eternal Security.

However it would more accurately convey the truth of the doctrine, so as not to cause confusion, to state it more thusly:
"Once Saved Always Changed".

Thus denoting a one time salvation that brings about a permenent change to the person saved.

This does not address the entirety of the doctrine but gives a much more concise and simplistic understanding for those who don't know or understand the doctrine of Eternal Security. The OSAS phrase is misunderstood due primarily to the phrase itself and therefore many incorrect o rmisleading conclusions are jumped to by those with little or no understanding of doctrine of Eternal Security.

Example: So you mean a person who is saved can live in a total sin depraved lifestyle, never repent, and still be saved?

No. If that person is saved they are so changed that they will not desire to live a sin depraved lifestyle but will run in repentence to their Saviour and Lord when they would sin against Him.

 

[Samuel Owen]

Tom Butler.

Actually tom I am Baptist, I was saved, and baptized a long time ago in a Baptist church, where my membership still is.

Although I prefer a non denominational status, and do not claim a church home.

I posted the question here, to avoid the confusion of various other opinions.

 

[Samuel Owen]

Ok, so we agree that a person that is truly saved, will not desire to return to a life of sin. And if he should, doubtless he was ever saved in the first place.

One person said they knew someone who stated you could be saved, and live anyway you wanted, and still not loose your salvation.

My response to that was OSAS, did not in any way mean that a person could do that, and be assured of eternal security. I think that OSAS is probably as misunderstood as Pauls statement, "where sin abounds Grace abounds more". Which we know some said Paul was preaching "Sin more so grace abounds more".

 

[Tom Butler]

Tom Butler.

Actually tom I am Baptist, I was saved, and baptized a long time ago in a Baptist church, where my membership still is.

Although I prefer a non denominational status, and do not claim a church home.

I posted the question here, to avoid the confusion of various other opinions.

If the moderators say you can post here, it's just fine with me. We'll let them sort it out.

 

[Allan]

Ok, so we agree that a person that is truly saved, will not desire to return to a life of sin. And if he should, doubtless he was ever saved in the first place.

One person said they knew someone who stated you could be saved, and live anyway you wanted, and still not loose your salvation.

My response to that was OSAS, did not in any way mean that a person could do that, and be assured of eternal security. I think that OSAS is probably as misunderstood as Pauls statement, "where sin abounds Grace abounds more". Which we know some said Paul was preaching "Sin more so grace abounds more".

I know some who make such a statement but not with the meaning or intent that that comes from what they are 'actaully' saying.

Most often what they mean is that if a person sins and dies without repenting that does not negate or affect their salvation however it does affect their relationship with the Father due to disobedience. OR they might be trying to give and extreme example to show savlation isn't dependant upon what we do but what Christ did for us.

This however is a VERY POOR and misleading argument and one I do not use because the statement is a contradiction to what the doctrine describes.

 

[DHK]

Tom Butler.

Actually tom I am Baptist, I was saved, and baptized a long time ago in a Baptist church, where my membership still is.

Although I prefer a non denominational status, and do not claim a church home.

I posted the question here, to avoid the confusion of various other opinions.

Samuel,
The Baptist Board is based on trust and honesty. We expect that the profiles that are filled out, are filled out honestly which we believe you did. With that in mind, you stated that you had no home church and were non-denominational. This forum is for those who are Baptists only.

Since you are not, at this present time a Baptist, I request that you post in those forums that are for Other Denominations.

This thread will be moved into the Other Christian Denominations Forum for that reason.

 

[BobRyan]

In Matt 18 we see the Bible doctrine on "Forgiveness revoked" explained clearly by Christ in the same way that Ezek 18 states this principle without doubt.

In John 15:1-11 Christ clearly points to the fact that branchins "IN HIM" are removed and cast into the fire if they do not continue to bear fruit.

In Gal 5:4 we see clearly that those in Christ can be later "Severed from Christ" and "Fallen from Grace".

In 1Cor 9 at the end of the chapter Paul argues "I buffet my body and make it my slave LEST after preaching the Gospel to others I MYSELF should be disqualified"

These are just "some" of the examples of the Bible texts that must be ignored to cling to the man-made tradition of OSAS.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Samuel Owen]

I have seen these also Bob, that is what raised the question. That is why I originally posted the question on one of the Baptist forums, I wanted to get some input directly from the horses mouth, so to speak.

But they don't recognize - er, "Outlaw Baptists" so they kicked me down here. I guess I just formed a new denomination :laugh: .

Outside of the John 15 True Vine reference, there are many more that seem to state clearly you can "Forfeit" your salvation. Are we to consider the Bible contradicts itself? I think not.

The Armenian view is you can, the Calvinist view is you cant. John Calvin was a very radical, and harsh man when it came down to his doctrines. And he proclaimed many a backslider, as just unsaved to begin with. So this question, just returned its self back to square one.

I have always maintained that Salvation was a gift freely given, and that the Lord would go far out of his way to keep you. But I also believe in freedom of choice, in that if you choose to forfeit your salvation it could be done. I really don't see a true Christian doing that, and I don't see it in any way denies the sufficiency of Christs work. But I still have to retain the opinion, that under certain conditions a person can forfeit his salvation, by his determined action.

PS. That is why I claim to be non denominational, and do not recognize my Baptist background.

 

[Samuel Owen]

I also checked out the doctrine of Eternal Security, in my "Moody Handbook Of Theology". It seems to arrive at this opinion, but you have to do what we are told not to do. That is! to pick a verse here, and one there, to form this doctrine.

Of course the Moody Handbook, as you know is Calvinist in its theology. So man has created many doctrines this way; some of which seem reasonable, and some of which seem only to his comfort.

I never like to say anything that might discourage someone, but I also do not want to be guilty of not speaking the truth. Long ago I decided to let the Bible speak for its self, and to refrain from too many doctrines. We may all come to opinions which are in effect a doctrine, but an opinion is not dogmatic, and held as an irrefutable truth that does not bear investigation.

 

[Samuel Owen]

Our Salvation lies in the Corner Stone the builders rejected, the head of all things, the Lord Jesus Christ. Your master, is the one you serve. So take heed from Paul, who said the doctrines of men, shall pass away with the using. That you place Christ as the head of all things, not you doctrines or denomination, lest you also should pass away with them.

I fear man has made his Denominations, and Religion his master, and many shall pass away. Just as did the Pharisee’s, of whom Jesus said; I know ye not.

 

[canadyjd]

I apologize, Samuel Owen. I thought you were asking a question about something you had not yet formed an opinion on, otherwise I wouldn't have wasted my time and yours.

peace to youraying:

 

[Samuel Owen]

canadyjd.

You didn't waste your time or mine. I honestly wanted some differing opinions, because I am always open to the opinion of others. Whether it changes my mind or not, doesn't really matter. I always like to compare apples to oranges, to see if it does affect my choice.

Peace to you also. raying:

 

[Outsider]

Brother Samuel,

I am a believer of OSAS, not because I fellowship in a Baptist church. I fellowship in this denomination because I feel that is where the Lord has placed me. I have always held to the doctrine of Eternal Security because that is what I find in scripture.
We can pull scriptures from one place or another and prove all kinds of things. What I find concerning this doctrine is not from different verses (although we do quote them because in many instances they are relevant), but the message as a whole teaches me this.

John 15 is a common text that many use as being able to lose salvation or being able to fall from grace. It doesn't teach me that. It does teach me that there are many people that profess Christianity but their works find them out. There are many that appear to be abiding in the vine, but if the vine is abiding in the branch, it will produce fruit. The fruit is produced by the vine, not the branch. When a person is born again, he is a new creature.

We are not saved by our works, so why would we be "unsaved" by them (Or the lack of them). Here is what scripture teaches me:

God demands payment for my sin.
I have nothing to pay with.
Christ paid the price, in full, for my sin.
He paid it for me.
He paid it to God.
It is God that justified me, because of the payment from Christ on my behalf.
At no time could I "Lose it". My salvation is in the hands of God.

I have faith and trust in Christ that He will deliver me.
I have assurance of the promise by the giving of the Holy Spirit.
Because of this I have become His workmanship unto good works.
Many people quote Ephesians 2:8-9, but verse 10 teaches me where my work is.

I hope this helps. I hope all is well and may God bless you and yours!

 

[Samuel Owen]

I don't believe that a Christian that is truly dedicated, and has placed their trust in Christ is in any danger of loosing their salvation. Nor do I believe that sin repented for, breaks that bond.

And I am not one of those people that goes around scaring people, with threats that they may loose their salvation. But I still reserve their are circumstances, that make it possible to Forfeit salvation.

Like my statement above, if you place your trust in your denomination, or doctrines of men, and not in the simplicity that is in Christ. You stand a very good chance of gaining nothing, much less loosing it. But Paul in Thessalonians speaks of a great falling away "Apostasy", and the love of many waxing cold. He was not referring to the world of lost men, but the Church.

So its pretty evident in this situation, men do, and can turn their back on God.

 

[Outsider]

Like my statement above, if you place your trust in your denomination, or doctrines of men, and not in the simplicity that is in Christ. You stand a very good chance of gaining nothing, much less loosing it. But Paul in Thessalonians speaks of a great falling away "Apostasy", and the love of many waxing cold. He was not referring to the world of lost men, but the Church.

So its pretty evident in this situation, men do, and can turn their back on God.

A person that puts their denomination ahead of Christ was born into that denomination and not in the body of Christ.
It is evident, in every situation, that God does not turn His back on those He has born with His Spirit.

 

[Outsider]

And I am not one of those people that goes around scaring people, with threats that they may loose their salvation. But I still reserve their are circumstances, that make it possible to Forfeit salvation.

I will have to refer to my former post when I said:

Originally posted by Outsider
God demands payment for my sin.
I have nothing to pay with.
Christ paid the price, in full, for my sin.
He paid it for me.
He paid it to God.
It is God that justified me, because of the payment from Christ on my behalf.
At no time could I "Lose it". My salvation is in the hands of God.

Salvation is of the Lord. It is all His. If He has declaired me righteous and justified me, then how can I lose it?

I find that no matter where I go or where I turn, the Lord is there.

My love for my children is all mine. I love them no matter what. No matter where they go, no matter what they do, I love them. If they do things that are displeasing to me, I still love them. No matter what.... they are still my children.

The love God has for His children is all His. No matter what... we are still His children.