-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Once Saved - Always Secured
- Thread starter Salty
- Start date
If my wife saw this, she'd laugh and tell you I've never said anything in less than 150 words in my life.
If a person denies the Biblical doctrine of eternal security, then I usually start by pointing out that, whether they realize it or not, they've adopted the Roman Catholic doctrine of infused righteousness.
I would ask them if salvation is a work of our flesh or a work God does in us and then ask them, if salvation cannot be earned, how can it be lost?
How does one become un-born again? And what happens to the new nature we receive upon regeneration if we can lose our salvation? What replaces it, since the old nature is crucified?
I would then take them to the scriptures and show them the following verses:
Romans 8:29-30 says that God predestined those whom He foreknew to be conformed to the image of Christ. If we can lose our salvation and, thus, our conformity to the image of Christ, then does this mean that God's foreknowledge is wrong? That's open theism, which has historically been condemned as heresy by the Church.
How about Jude 24, which says that Christ is able to keep us from falling? If we can lose our salvation, does this mean that Christ is able to keep us from falling, but is merely unwilling? How is that consistent with the Biblical description of Christ?
What do you make of Colosians 3:1-4, which promises that if we have been save, we will appear with Christ in glory? It doesn't say "you might appear with Christ in glory, if you don't lose your salvation". It says "you will appear with Christ in glory". Done deal.
Philipians 1:6 promises us that if Christ has begun a good work in us, that He will finish it. How does He keep that promise if you believe you can lose your salvation?
How do you explain 1 Peter 1:23, which tells us that when we are born again, we are born of incorruptable seed? If we can lose our salvation, then this seed is corruptable and that promise is not true.
Like Colosians 3:1-4, 1 John 3:2 says that we are sons of God now and that when Christ appears, we will be like Him. There is no qualifier. There is no "...if we don't lose our salvation".
Titus 1:2 says that God has promised us eternal life and that He never breaks a promise.
In John 10:27-29, Jesus promises us that He has given us eternal life, that we will never perish, and that we are not only in His hands, but in the Father's hands. How is Jesus' promise in John 10:27-28 consistent with the idea that we can lose our salvation? Is Jesus really incompetent to keep those whom the Father has given Him?
John 5:24 says that if we are saved, we will not come into condemnation but will have eternal life? How can Jesus promise that we will not come into condemnation if He knows we can lose our salvation?
Romans 11:6 tells us that salvation is not by works. If we cannot be saved by works, then how can we lose our salvation by works?
John 14:16-17 tells us that when we are saved, the Holy Spirit indwells us forever. How can the Holy Spirit indwell in us forever if we lose our salvation? Since when does the Holy Spirit dwell in the unsaved?
Ephesians 1:13, 4:30 tells us that we are sealed unto the day of redemption. If we lose our salvation, then how can we still claim to be sealed?
1 Peter 1:4 says that our salvation is "imperishable, undefiled, and unfading". If our salvation is imperishable, how can we lose it? If our salvation is promised by God to be undefiled, how can we defile it?
If we could really lose our salvation, then Hebrews 6:4-6 says that if we ever sin after being saved, we'll be lost forever with no way back, because the Lord would have to be crucified all over again to retrieve us.
Incidentally, it only takes one sin to fall away, right? I mean, one sin before we're saved was enough to condemn us, so one sin after we're saved is enough to condemn us, right? Doesn't this make the New Covenant worse than the Old? Under the Old Covenant, the Israelites were condemned for their actions, but we'd be condemned for our thoughts.
For example, they couldn't murder. We couldn't even be angry. They couldn't commit adultery. We couldn't even have a lustful thought. If the OP is right, then we lose our salvation by doing less in following the law than the Israelites did!
Is this really the Good News of Jesus Christ? Are these the riches of His Grace, that we have to live in fear of sinning? Are we saved by grace only to be placed under the constraints of an even more severely administered law?
Jesus said that those whom the father gives him, no one can snatch them out of his hand, or his Father's hand. Paul says in Philippians that God who began the good work in you (saved you) is faithful to complete the work (bring you to full sanctification in heaven). Jesus said that some will claim to have known him, but he will say to them, "I NEVER knew you" ...Not "I knew you once, but now I don't because you lost your salvation." John says that some went out from us, that it might be known that they were not of us…Their leaving did not CAUSE them to be not of us…it merely revealed what was already true, but hidden…but for those who are truly in Christ, Nothing can separate us from him…as Jude says, he is able to “keep us from stumbling.” …six more words to reach 150!
Jesus yelled that the work of salvation was accomplished, and that His death paid for sin debt in full! His blood paid for and cleannses for ALL my sins, and he promises eternal life, not probationary life!
I would use 1 Peter 1:3-5.
1) God caused us, those saved, to be born again. We cannot undo what God has done.
2) We have our hope for a bodily resurrection, thus because it is predestined, our hope cannot be lost.
3) We are protected, kept as in a jail cell with a locked door, by the means of God protecting our faith such that we cannot lose it.
1) God caused us, those saved, to be born again. We cannot undo what God has done.
2) We have our hope for a bodily resurrection, thus because it is predestined, our hope cannot be lost.
3) We are protected, kept as in a jail cell with a locked door, by the means of God protecting our faith such that we cannot lose it.
I would appeal to the nature and character of God:
Is God a liar? Can God tell a lie? Is God truth? Does God always tell the truth? Is salvation all of God? If Jesus, who is God, said, "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out" (John 6:37), what makes you think that you can change what God has done? Your salvation is not secure because of you. Your salvation is secure because of God; because of who He is and what He did in the person of Jesus Christ.
Then all we would have is people reposting their (or someone else's) blog links. :laugh:
salzer mtn
Well-Known Member
Eternal salvation, eternal security, whatever you want to call it is a doctrine of grace. All doctrines of grace has to be taught by the Spirit. When I was saved I believed in back sliding. I studied all the scripture that referred to a child of God losing their salvation. If someone tried to point out to me scripture that said the child of God is eternally saved it did no good, I had my own scripture. The only thing that changed my thinking was the Holy Spirit began to teach me.
I would quote them 1 Peter 1:23
1 Pet 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
We are born again of incorruptible seed, therefore we cannot revert back to unbelief and be lost again, otherwise we would be corruptible.
1 Pet 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
We are born again of incorruptible seed, therefore we cannot revert back to unbelief and be lost again, otherwise we would be corruptible.
HisWitness
New Member
you can use all the words you want--but when they see so called Christians doing anything they so choose--it does you no good to even speak to them----if they see Yah's people doing the same thing as them--then what need have they of Yah ?????
They can only see Yah's people in front of them---Since Yah is invisible to them--then they see his so -called people living like they do--so what words will you say to them-they probably are thinking you are the ones in need ??
Very well stated. Totally contradictory to the true message of His word!!