Im no baptist at all but I can understand OSAS clearly from the scriptures. But I cannot see TULI.
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Once Saved - once lost ???
- Thread starter Salty
- Start date
- Status
Im no baptist at all but I can understand OSAS clearly from the scriptures. But I cannot see TULI.
How do you logically defend OSAS without unconditional election? How do you logically reconcile "free will" to OSAS?
Just to be upfront, I am a Classical Arminian. I have no dogmatic view of OSAS.
Through my understanding of "born again". Choice is all throughout the scripture. Once the choice is made to receive Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, God performs the miracle of the rebirth and you are sealed forever, the heart has been changed eternally. The flesh has yet to be changed.
God Himself will make sure that the salvation process that he started will be completed/finished, Romans 8, and it is the father drawing the elect unto Jesus, Jesus saving them, and the Holy Spirit sealing them. Their new natures will never be able to forever deny the Lord Jesus, so cannot lose eternal life!
Felipe Rios
Member
According to them, at what point does one loose salvation?
# things would have to happen to prove OSAS was a false doctrine.
The father would have someone/something able to pluck the saved away from him, Jesus intercession as high priest would fail, and the Spirit breaks His sealing in them!
If by them you mean the latter, salvation is lost when one fully rejects the New Birth to turn back to their old ways. They have tasted the Spirit, fully understand the choice they make, and wilfully choose to leave Christ. Their belief is that at that point, The Spirit will never again deal with that person.
I am not saying I believe that but as a C.A. I entertain it as a possibility.
Not really. Leaving is not plucking. Jesus intercession has nothing to do with it. I am not aware where in scripture we have proof The Spirit can not break His seal.
I lean toward eternal security, but I do not see it as defendable outside Calvinism.
It is defended by Romans 8, what can separate us, the saved, from the love of God in Christ Jesus? NOTHING
Saved-By-Grace
Well-Known Member
can a truly born-again person ever lose their salvation, and therefore become un-born-again?
I have yet to find a single Scripture that teaches that a truly saved person can ever become lost, and end up in hell forever. I have argued on other threads that there are some very testing and difficult passages from the Bible, that would indeed challenge the OSAS position, but this I believe is outweighed by the following Scriptures
In John 5:24, the Lord Jesus Christ says: "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that hears my word, and believes on him that sent me, has everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life". Where the Greek text literally reads, "has passed over out of death, into life". This transaction is spoken of being completed when the sinner repents of their sins, and accepts through faith, the finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Speaking of His sheep in John 10:28, Jesus says, "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand". Where the Greek is far stronger, "οὐ μὴ ἀπόλωνται εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα", the words "εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα" are left untranslated in all the English versions that I have access to, which reads, "for ever". At the start of this sentence we have two little words in the Greek, "οὐ μὴ", which is known as the "emphatic double negative", "never, by no means", perish for eternity. Such is the force of the Greek text here. The same is found in Jesus wonderful promise to Martha, in chapter 11 of this Gospel. "Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believes in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever lives and believes in me shall never die (οὐ μὴ ἀποθάνῃ εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα). Do you believe this? ". A very solemn promise by the Saviour.
Eternal life for the truly saved is just that, ETERNAL LIFE. after all they are "kept by the power of God" (1 Peter 1:5)
I have yet to find a single Scripture that teaches that a truly saved person can ever become lost, and end up in hell forever. I have argued on other threads that there are some very testing and difficult passages from the Bible, that would indeed challenge the OSAS position, but this I believe is outweighed by the following Scriptures
In John 5:24, the Lord Jesus Christ says: "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that hears my word, and believes on him that sent me, has everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life". Where the Greek text literally reads, "has passed over out of death, into life". This transaction is spoken of being completed when the sinner repents of their sins, and accepts through faith, the finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Speaking of His sheep in John 10:28, Jesus says, "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand". Where the Greek is far stronger, "οὐ μὴ ἀπόλωνται εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα", the words "εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα" are left untranslated in all the English versions that I have access to, which reads, "for ever". At the start of this sentence we have two little words in the Greek, "οὐ μὴ", which is known as the "emphatic double negative", "never, by no means", perish for eternity. Such is the force of the Greek text here. The same is found in Jesus wonderful promise to Martha, in chapter 11 of this Gospel. "Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believes in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever lives and believes in me shall never die (οὐ μὴ ἀποθάνῃ εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα). Do you believe this? ". A very solemn promise by the Saviour.
Eternal life for the truly saved is just that, ETERNAL LIFE. after all they are "kept by the power of God" (1 Peter 1:5)
Right there is the issue. How can one reject the new birth after being recreated as one with Christ. It's not as in the OT when the Spirit was "with" someone. In the rebirth a person is transformed into a totally new creation which is one in Christ. It's also kinda stupid to think a person would personally know Jesus Christ is God and they are totally forgiven, and then say "I think I'll reject this freely given grace and just go to hell." Does that make any sense to you?
Even those who hold that one can lose their salvation, would not say once lost, never can be found again!
Much easier to trust in Jesus words to save forever those who come unto Him!
Saved-By-Grace
Well-Known Member
what about those with false theology?
Such as?
Saved-By-Grace
Well-Known Member
anyone who knowingly teaches that which is contrary to the Holy Bible. There are some who claim to be "saved", but hold to doctrines that show that this cannot be the case.
Do you mean we reformed/Calvinist here?
If the person is saved it will be. If they come and seem to believe for a season and then leave they were never saved. 1 John 2:19
One Baptism
Active Member
Acts 5:3 KJB, they went from being filled with the Holy Spirit, Acts 4, to being filled with Satan, to directly lying not to man, but to God himself, even the Holy Ghost. What would you call that? Semi-lost? Quasi-lost?
As for the other part, Acts is the Bible. It is truth. I didn't judge them, God did and He told me their heart - "Satan hath filled thine heart". My heart is another matter altogether.
Last edited:
One Baptism
Active Member
Big "if's".
- Status