37818
Well-Known Member
At a maximum of 5 years from birth would be 30 years from the promise. The 400 years began with Isaac being mocked, . . . afflicted, Genesis 21:9.NNE KNOWS WHAT YEAR ISAAC WAS WEANED.
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One more evidence against KJV onlyism.
- Thread starter 37818
- Start date
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
N
NOTHING SAYS THE 400 YEARS
STARTS WHEN ISAAC WAS MOCKED, DOES IT?
THIS IS REMARKABLE. WHERE DO YOU
COME UP WITH THIS STUFF???
In Genesis 15:13 we read that the Lord said to Abraham, "Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them: and they shall afflict them four hundred years." This text raises the questions whether the 400 years refer to the time of affliction or sojourning, or both, and what the relation of the 400 years is to the 430 years of Exodus 12:40, 41, and Galatians 3:16, 17.
Galatians 3:17 tells us that the full period of 430 years started from the covenant of grace given to Abraham and his seed to inherit the promised land and extended to the time of the giving of the law by Moses to the children of Israel.
Genesis 12 tells us that God had called Abraham to leave his country, kindred, and fathers house to go into a land that God would show him and later give to his seed as their promised inheritance. However Abraham tarried for some time (perhaps 5 years) in Haran before he finally departed, as the LORD had spoken unto him (Gen. 12:1-4).
When God again appears to Abraham in Genesis 15, the sacrifice is offered and the covenant is further developed. God tells Abraham Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them: and they shall afflict them four hundred years.
The solution here is that the period of 400 years affliction does not refer only to the time spent in bondage in Egypt. Abraham's seed could not possibly have been there for 430 nor 400 years as the genealogies tell us.
According to Galatians 3:17, at that time the 430 years began, Abraham was probably about 70 years old when God initially called him go leave his fathers house and go into the promised land. Abraham was 75 when he finally left Haran to enter the land. Ishmael was born to Abraham when he was 86 (Gen. 16:16) and Isaac was born when Abraham is 100 years old (Genesis 17:17).
The affliction that the seed of Abraham endured was to occur over a span of 400 years.
During this time Ishmael, who "was born after the flesh persecuted him [Isaac] that was born after the spirit" (Galatians 4:29; Genesis 21:9-11), Beginning a time of affliction of Abraham's seed which intermittently would be continued until the time of the Exodus.
Isaac had not only troubles with his half brother Ishmael, but also with the Philistines (Genesis 26:15, 20, 21); Jacob fled for his life from Esau (Genesis 27: 41-43), and later from Laban (Genesis 31:21), and then was again in jeopardy from Esau (Genesis 32:
Joseph was sold into slavery by his brethren (Genesis 37:2
and the children of Israel were oppressed by the Egyptians for many decades (Exodus 1:14).
Acts 7:6-7 tells us - And God spake on this wise, That his seed should sojourn in a strange land; and that they should bring them into bondage, and entreat them evil four hundred years. And the nation to whom they shall be in bondage will I judge, said God: and after that shall they come forth, and serve me in this place.
Abraham's seed did sojourn in a strange land because they had not yet received the promised inheritance, and they were eventually brought into bondage in Egypt, but the period of their being evil entreated was not limited only to the time spent in Egypt, as the rest of Scripture tells us.
The time from Abraham's call to Jacob's entry into Egypt was 215 years,
being the total of
(1) thirty years lying between Abraham's call
and the birth of Isaac (Genesis 12:4; 21:5),
(2) sixty years lying between Isaac's birth and Jacob's birth (Genesis 25:26),
and (3) the age of Jacob at the time of his migration into Egypt (Genesis 47:9).
This leaves the remaining 215 years of the 430 as the actual time the Hebrews spent in Egypt. Hence the 430 years of Exodus 12:40 includes the sojourn of the patriarchs in Canaan as well as their stay in Egypt.
The King James Bible properly says
"Now the SOJOURNING
of the children of Israel (comma),
who dwelt in Egypt (at this time, comma),
was 430 years."
The verb to sojourn means to dwell for a time as a temporary resident, or as a stranger, not considering the place a permanent habitation. The noun sojourn is a temporary residence, as if a traveler in a foreign land.
Exodus 12:40 is to be read in the sense that the total time of sojourning of Abraham and his seed was 430 years. This includes all the time Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and his family spent wandering around the land that was owned by others until the time came when God gave it to them as their promised inheritance. At the time Exodus 12 describes, the children of Israel were in Egypt, but the text does NOT say that they had been in Egypt for the full 430 years.
King James Bible - "Now the sojourning
of the children of Israel, who dwelt in Egypt,
was four hundred and thirty years."
Adam Clarke comments: From Abraham's entry into Canaan to the birth of Isaac was 25 years, Genesis 12:4; 17:1-21; Isaac was 60 years old at the birth of Jacob, Genesis 25:26; and Jacob was 130 at his going down into Egypt, Genesis 47:9; which three sums make 215 years. And then Jacob and his children having continued in Egypt 215 years more, the whole sum of 430 years is regularly completed.
John Gill Exodus 12:40 Now the sojourning of the children of Israel, who dwelt in Egypt, was four hundred and thirty years. And certain it is, that Israel did not dwell in Egypt four hundred and thirty years, and even not much more than two hundred years; but then they and their fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, dwelt so long in Mesopotamia, in Canaan, and in Egypt, in foreign countries, in a land not theirs, as the phrase is, (Genesis 15:13) where the place of their sojourning, and the time of it, are given by way of prophecy....
From his coming out of his own native place, Ur of the Chaldeans, to the birth of Isaac, might be so many years, since he was seventy five years of age when he came out of Haran, (Genesis 12:4) and if he stayed at Haran five years, as probably he did, then there were just thirty from his coming out of Ur of the Chaldees to Isaac's birth, since he was born when he was one hundred years old; and from the birth of Isaac to the birth of Jacob was sixty years, (Genesis 25:26) and from thence to his going down to Egypt was one hundred and thirty, (Genesis 47:9) and from thence to the coming of Israel out of Egypt were two hundred and ten years, as is generally computed, which make the exact sum of four hundred and thirty years.
37818
Well-Known Member
When does the 400 years begin? Not before Genesis 21:9. The 430 years being per Galatians 3:16-17, . . . And to thy seed . . . . Per Genesis 13:15 . . . and to thy seed . . . . The promise originally given in Genesis 12:7.
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
A few other commentators also come up with the right ideas.
Geneva Bible notes - 12:41 And it came to pass at the end of the (s) four hundred and thirty years, even the selfsame day it came to pass, that all the hosts of the LORD went out from the land of Egypt. (s) From Abrahams departing from Ur in Chaldea to the departing of the children of Israel from Egypt are 430 years.
Jamison, Fausett and Brown remark: Exodus 12:40. the sojourning of the children of Israel ... four hundred and thirty years...the period of sojourn in Egypt did not exceed two hundred fifteen years; but if we reckon from the time that Abraham entered Canaan and the promise was made in which the sojourn of his posterity in Egypt was announced, this makes up the time to four hundred thirty years.
Matthew Henry - Of the date of this great event: it was just 430 years from the promise made to Abraham (as the apostle explains it, Galatians 3:17) at his first coming into Canaan, during all which time the children of Israel, that is, the Hebrews, the distinguished chosen seed, were sojourners in a land that was not theirs, either Canaan or Egypt. So long the promise God made to Abraham of a settlement lay dormant and unfulfilled, but now, at length, it revived, and things began to work towards the accomplishment of it. The first day of the march of Abraham's seed toward Canaan was just 430 years (it should seem to a day) from the promise made to Abraham, Genesis 12:2, I will make of thee a great nation.
And the Lamsa Bible looks like it has Exodus 12:40 translated correctly,
along with the King James Version;
"Now the sojourning
of the children of Israel, who dwelt in Egypt,
was four hundred and thirty years."
While the Brenton Septuagint Translation states the truth differently;
with some additions and subtractions to the text,
such as the addition of, "and the land of Chanaan"
along with repeating a portion of the text, for clarity,
AND SUBSTITUTING, "while they sojourned",
IN PLACE OF, "who dwelt",
WHICH THEY EDITED OUT and OMITTED.
SO THEY EDITED OUT and OMITTED the pronoun, "who",
that had begun the pronoun phrase, "who dwelt in Egypt",
used to modify the noun, "children"
and as a substitution for the noun phrase, "the children of Israel"
which is known as the pronoun's antecedent.
The antecedent of the pronoun, "who", then,
in this case, is the noun phrase, "the children of Israel".
The pronoun phrase, "who dwelt in Egypt",
is intended to IDENTIFY "the children of Israel",
AS THOSE PEOPLE, "who dwelt in Egypt".
The Hebrew DOES NOT HAVE "in the land of Egypt",
as a prepositional phrase, which would modify the noun, "sojourning".
THEY MADE SOME CHANGES, ADDITIONS, and SUBTRACTIONS,
THAT STILL RESULTS IN A FACTUALLY ACCURATE STATEMENT;
"And the sojourning of the children of Israel,
while they sojourned in the land of Egypt and the land of Chanaan,
"was four hundred and thirty years."
There is no error or contradiction in the Hebrew texts,
and the King James Bible is essentially and virtually alone
as we see The KJB gives the historically accurate, grammatically astute,
and best translation of Exodus 12:40,
King James Bible - "Now the sojourning
of the children of Israel, who dwelt in Egypt,
was four hundred and thirty years,"
in contrast to versions like the New International Version,
New Living Translation, English Standard Version, Berean Standard Bible,
New American Standard Bible, NASB 1995, NASB 1977,
Legacy Standard Bible, Amplified Bible, Christian Standard Bible,
Holman Christian Standard Bible, American Standard Version,
Aramaic Bible in Plain English, Douay-Rheims Bible,
English Revised Version, GOD'S WORD® Translation,
Good News Translation, International Standard Version,
JPS Tanakh 1917, Literal Standard Version, Majority Standard Bible,
New American Bible, NET Bible, New Revised Standard Version,
New Heart English Bible, Webster's Bible Translation,
World English Bible, Young's Literal Translation,
A Faithful Version, Darby Bible Translation, Geneva Bible of 1587,
Bishops' Bible of 1568, Coverdale Bible of 1535, Tyndale Bible of 1526,
Smith's Literal Translation, Catholic Public Domain Version,
and the Peshitta Holy Bible Translated, versions*
which DO create a contradiction, have a mistranslation error there,
and their verses for Exodus 12:40 amount to nothing more than a lie.
Typical examples are:
New International Version -
"Now the length of time
the Israelite people LIVED IN Egypt was 430 years."
WRONG.
Holman Standard Version -
"The time that the Israelites LIVED IN Egypt was 430 years."
WRONG.
*Etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., as seen when referencing
all of the above versions cited.
Geneva Bible notes - 12:41 And it came to pass at the end of the (s) four hundred and thirty years, even the selfsame day it came to pass, that all the hosts of the LORD went out from the land of Egypt. (s) From Abrahams departing from Ur in Chaldea to the departing of the children of Israel from Egypt are 430 years.
Jamison, Fausett and Brown remark: Exodus 12:40. the sojourning of the children of Israel ... four hundred and thirty years...the period of sojourn in Egypt did not exceed two hundred fifteen years; but if we reckon from the time that Abraham entered Canaan and the promise was made in which the sojourn of his posterity in Egypt was announced, this makes up the time to four hundred thirty years.
Matthew Henry - Of the date of this great event: it was just 430 years from the promise made to Abraham (as the apostle explains it, Galatians 3:17) at his first coming into Canaan, during all which time the children of Israel, that is, the Hebrews, the distinguished chosen seed, were sojourners in a land that was not theirs, either Canaan or Egypt. So long the promise God made to Abraham of a settlement lay dormant and unfulfilled, but now, at length, it revived, and things began to work towards the accomplishment of it. The first day of the march of Abraham's seed toward Canaan was just 430 years (it should seem to a day) from the promise made to Abraham, Genesis 12:2, I will make of thee a great nation.
And the Lamsa Bible looks like it has Exodus 12:40 translated correctly,
along with the King James Version;
"Now the sojourning
of the children of Israel, who dwelt in Egypt,
was four hundred and thirty years."
While the Brenton Septuagint Translation states the truth differently;
with some additions and subtractions to the text,
such as the addition of, "and the land of Chanaan"
along with repeating a portion of the text, for clarity,
AND SUBSTITUTING, "while they sojourned",
IN PLACE OF, "who dwelt",
WHICH THEY EDITED OUT and OMITTED.
SO THEY EDITED OUT and OMITTED the pronoun, "who",
that had begun the pronoun phrase, "who dwelt in Egypt",
used to modify the noun, "children"
and as a substitution for the noun phrase, "the children of Israel"
which is known as the pronoun's antecedent.
The antecedent of the pronoun, "who", then,
in this case, is the noun phrase, "the children of Israel".
The pronoun phrase, "who dwelt in Egypt",
is intended to IDENTIFY "the children of Israel",
AS THOSE PEOPLE, "who dwelt in Egypt".
The Hebrew DOES NOT HAVE "in the land of Egypt",
as a prepositional phrase, which would modify the noun, "sojourning".
THEY MADE SOME CHANGES, ADDITIONS, and SUBTRACTIONS,
THAT STILL RESULTS IN A FACTUALLY ACCURATE STATEMENT;
"And the sojourning of the children of Israel,
while they sojourned in the land of Egypt and the land of Chanaan,
"was four hundred and thirty years."
There is no error or contradiction in the Hebrew texts,
and the King James Bible is essentially and virtually alone
as we see The KJB gives the historically accurate, grammatically astute,
and best translation of Exodus 12:40,
King James Bible - "Now the sojourning
of the children of Israel, who dwelt in Egypt,
was four hundred and thirty years,"
in contrast to versions like the New International Version,
New Living Translation, English Standard Version, Berean Standard Bible,
New American Standard Bible, NASB 1995, NASB 1977,
Legacy Standard Bible, Amplified Bible, Christian Standard Bible,
Holman Christian Standard Bible, American Standard Version,
Aramaic Bible in Plain English, Douay-Rheims Bible,
English Revised Version, GOD'S WORD® Translation,
Good News Translation, International Standard Version,
JPS Tanakh 1917, Literal Standard Version, Majority Standard Bible,
New American Bible, NET Bible, New Revised Standard Version,
New Heart English Bible, Webster's Bible Translation,
World English Bible, Young's Literal Translation,
A Faithful Version, Darby Bible Translation, Geneva Bible of 1587,
Bishops' Bible of 1568, Coverdale Bible of 1535, Tyndale Bible of 1526,
Smith's Literal Translation, Catholic Public Domain Version,
and the Peshitta Holy Bible Translated, versions*
which DO create a contradiction, have a mistranslation error there,
and their verses for Exodus 12:40 amount to nothing more than a lie.
Typical examples are:
New International Version -
"Now the length of time
the Israelite people LIVED IN Egypt was 430 years."
WRONG.
Holman Standard Version -
"The time that the Israelites LIVED IN Egypt was 430 years."
WRONG.
*Etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., as seen when referencing
all of the above versions cited.