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One thing a Calvinist has never done.
- Thread starter utilyan
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- common sense
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Your church holds that babies can do that when water baptized!
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
Not so. Regeneration/drawing/calling are part of the salvation process that enables the person to call upon the name of Jesus for salvation.
The “one thing” you seem to be unable to do is accurate state what folks who hold to the doctrines of grace believe.
peace to you
Church holds that anyone can do that even the unbaptized.
If you are already saved and born again that puts the cart before the horse. I'd be more convinced if you gave your own testimony where you are totally depraved calling on the Lord to be saved. Instead as you said you have to be regenerated/SAVED FIRST.
That's irrelevant to his critique.....
Maybe you are both wrong.
Either way, his critique requires an answer.
Everybody knows what the "Doctrines of Grace" folks believe.
Every time someone states them accurately, you simply nuance a term in the most irrelevant way and then group up to affirm the new definition.
That argument is tired and stupid.
The logical priority of the events in question was correctly stated by him.
The chronological priority is irrelevant.
Everyone knows what Calvinists believe, it isn't that esoteric...
Any faith so esoteric that 98.888% of the World's population can't understand or articulate it....
isn't a Bible faith, it's a demonic one.
He was right about it, you just don't like answering his critique.
Dave G
Well-Known Member
I think you're missing the significance of the statement...
"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."
It's evidential, not conditional, utilyan.
One does not call upon Jesus Christ to save them in the eternal sense...
One "calls upon Him" because they are saved and out of a pure heart ( 2 Timothy 2:22 )...a heart that was made pure by the Lord's power ( Titus 3:5-7, James 1:18 ).
Just as one believes because it is given to them to do so ( Philippians 1:29 ), not because they willed themselves to.
That is the order found in Psalms 65:4 ( God chooses, man responds by approaching ), Acts of the Apostles 13:48 ( God ordains, men believe because they were ordained to eternal life ), John 3:36 ( He that believes already has life, he that does not already has the wrath of God abiding on them ), John 5:24, John 6:44, John 6:65 ( one must first be given to Christ by the Father before they can come to Him ), John 17:2 ( Christ is given power over all flesh, that He will give eternal life only to those which the Father has given to Him ), and many others...
For example:
" Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life." ( John 5:24 ).
Let me draw it out for you, sir, in plain English:
"Truly, truly I say to you, he that hears my words and believes on Him that sent me, HAS ( not "will have", already has ) everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation, but is passed ( already gone ) from death to life."
They already have everlasting life when they believe, shall not come into condemnation, but are already passed from death to life.
Do you see it?
It's right on the page.
All you have to do is believe the words.
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Dave G
Well-Known Member
That puts the salvation of souls in God's hands, not ours, utilyan.
My testimony was that I was sitting in a church pew at a Baptist church one night, minding my own business and over the course of an hour the very word of God began to sink into my thick skull, penetrate into my understanding and I began to see that I was a sinner in desperate need of a Saviour...
and still am.
But the point I'm making, is that I didn't even hesitate..I simply believed the words without taking the time to decide if they were true or not, I just knew that they were.
I also take comfort in the fact that He bothered with me, instead of leaving me in my sins for judgment and the punishment of Hell.
I once believed it the other way around, before I really began to dig into His word for myself.
Then I saw Ephesians 1:4-5, 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 and Romans 8:29-30 and my entire way of thinking began to change.
I started to see that it wasn't me who "helped" God by asking Him to do so, but that it was all His work, start to finish.
That's what grace really is...completely unmerited favor from out of nowhere, utilyan.
Again and as in other threads, that's why John Newton, a "Calvinist", wrote the song...
because he saw that His grace really is amazing, when one considers that it is impossible to do anything to earn it or to keep it.
As always, I wish you well, sir.
And as always, I want so very much for Him to bless you beyond imagination.
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canadyjd
Well-Known Member
Again, not so. I believe scripture teaches salvation is a process. Every person is born a sinner under condemnation, totally depraved. God choses, before the foundation of the world, those whom He will bring to salvation.
Those He has chosen, He intervenes in their lives at the time He had appointed by Holy Spirit. Holy Spirit so changes their nature they are able to understand their sinful, wretched state and need for a Savior. They respond by believing the gospel and faith in Jesus Christ. They are “saved” when they believe in Jesus Christ.
peace to you
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
And yet, few who disagree with the “doctrines of grace folks” can or will accurately state their beliefs.
This thread is a perfect example. Even though I have clearly stated what I believe, that people are not saved prior to faith in Jesus, I am told I don’t really believe what I stated,
I am certainly willing to debate scripture, or debate doctrine. But I am not willing to “debate” whether I believe what I have stated I believe. I’m the only one that can speak for me.
peace to you
This is funny scripture does not say that does it. Must be your imagination Huh!
MB
Maybe you shouldn't think because I called on Him and I was saved. It's really funny that all Calvinist believe them selves to be so knowledgeable when in reality they're just guessing
LOL
MB
Just because you believe it does not make it true does it? In fact you're denying scripture more often than you agree with it. What you agree with is your own theories and theories are not fact.
MB
Show me where scripture says we are born sinners? Scripture please?
MB
atpollard
Well-Known Member
atpollard
Well-Known Member
opinion or fact?
Fact
MB
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