Oneness Vs. Trinity Debate

[ONENESS]

Originally posted by Dualhunter:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by ONENESS:
And on the other hand I have heard many trinitarian preachers who have been given the revelation that the Fullness of the Godhead dwells in Jesus Christ.

That's no surprise, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, are each 100% God, not 33% of God. The 3 are 1, not the 3 thirds are 1, not the 1 is 1, not the 3 are 3, the 3 are 1, triune.</font>[/QUOTE]Dual, I promise I have not forgot you. I know you are kind of new to talking with me so let me tell you about how I answer posts.

I am at work from 8-5 est time. M-F and I usually do not get on a cp on the weekends unless I am at my parents home. But Wednesday I got jumped onto by my boss about being on the net so much at work. So I am trying to be a little bit more sneaky about it so I will not be able to respond alot for a while.

But if I dont answer you, rest assure that I will.

God bless

 

[Chemnitz]

I dont know what you call credible but I have read books by Chuck Swindoll, Charles Stanley, And Billy Graham.

Not them, thats for sure and I gave you two book titles that are fairly decent.

ANd I know that you will try to say that no one was baptized directly in the Name of Jesus. But I have shown you where they have.

Could of fooled me, you have only shown us where people were baptised by the authority of Jesus. In fact, I seem to recall pointing out a passage where baptism in Jesus name was spoken against."14 Now when the apostles at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent to them Peter and John, 15 who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16 for he had not yet fallen on any of them, but they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. " Acts 8:14-16

Would you care to comment on the question about 3 Lords?

Why don't you look it up. We have answered it enough times you shouldn't have any trouble finding the answer.

 

[ONENESS]

Originally posted by Chemnitz:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />I dont know what you call credible but I have read books by Chuck Swindoll, Charles Stanley, And Billy Graham.

Not them, thats for sure and I gave you two book titles that are fairly decent.

ANd I know that you will try to say that no one was baptized directly in the Name of Jesus. But I have shown you where they have.

Could of fooled me, you have only shown us where people were baptised by the authority of Jesus. In fact, I seem to recall pointing out a passage where baptism in Jesus name was spoken against."14 Now when the apostles at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent to them Peter and John, 15 who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16 for he had not yet fallen on any of them, but they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. " Acts 8:14-16

Would you care to comment on the question about 3 Lords?

Why don't you look it up. We have answered it enough times you shouldn't have any trouble finding the answer.</font>[/QUOTE]

Could of fooled me, you have only shown us where people were baptised by the authority of Jesus. In fact, I seem to recall pointing out a passage where baptism in Jesus name was spoken against."14 Now when the apostles at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent to them Peter and John, 15 who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16 for he had not yet fallen on any of them, but they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. " Acts 8:14-16

Oh yea they were really rebukeing the people here for being baptized in the Name of Jesus. They were not speaking against it, why would they speak against something Peter Preached who was instructed by Jesus (matt 28:19, Luke 24:45-49, Mark 16:16)

They were merely saying that being baptized in Jesus name is not enough.

Chemitz, you accuse me of swinging at straws, but when we go to the book of acts thats all you appear to be doing. You start picking at and makeing it say what you want it to say.

Lorelie, said she takes the bible for what it says. So where is she at now. What does she do when she gets to the book of acts? Do she do exactly what it says or does she do what she wants it to say?

It is so easy to see that the "Name" In Matthew 28:19 is singular. Father, Son, and Holy Ghost do not decribe three Names of Three diffrent people. If that were the case Jesus would have said, "Baptize them in the Names of the the Father, Son, and HOly GHost.

Father, Son, and Holy Ghost all decribe the One Name that we are supposed to be baptized in. And when we go to the book of Acts, we find out that one Name is Jesus Christ. (Acts 2:38)

Acts 4:12 says "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."

Collosians 3:17 says "And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him."

Another Pont before I close.

Collosians 3:17...giving thanks to God and the Father by him

According to Lorelie, she would take this to mean two seperate Persons. My question is How can you give thanks to God and the Father?

There is no doubt that when we give thanks to the Lord Jesus Christ we give Glory to the Father Himself.

God bless

 

[Lorelei]

Originally posted by ONENESS:
Lorelie, said she takes the bible for what it says. So where is she at now. What does she do when she gets to the book of acts? Do she do exactly what it says or does she do what she wants it to say?

So was your apology merely words, or did you mean it? You know the answers to these questions and if you don't, go to the archives and look them up. Repeating it yet again won't make one iota of difference for you have no desire to listen.

Be honest Oneness, we have been discussing this for how long? Have either of us budged? Did I not give you scriptural reasons for leaving this debate?

Originally posted by ONENESS:
I am at work from 8-5 est time. M-F and I usually do not get on a cp on the weekends unless I am at my parents home. But Wednesday I got jumped onto by my boss about being on the net so much at work. So I am trying to be a little bit more sneaky about it so I will not be able to respond alot for a while.

Could you please show me the scriptural reference that tells us we are to be sneaky at work and hide the fact that we are on the net while at work, instead of doing what we are actually paid to do?

You sit here day after day and pretend to be speaking out for truth when in reality you are actually practicing deception, something the Bible speaks out against.

~Lorelei

 

[Chemnitz]

It is so easy to see that the "Name" In Matthew 28:19 is singular. Father, Son, and Holy Ghost do not decribe three Names of Three diffrent people. If that were the case Jesus would have said, "Baptize them in the Names of the the Father, Son, and HOly GHost.

Must we rehash an argument that I already refuted. This is exactly what i am talking about.

I am at work from 8-5 est time. M-F and I usually do not get on a cp on the weekends unless I am at my parents home. But Wednesday I got jumped onto by my boss about being on the net so much at work. So I am trying to be a little bit more sneaky about it so I will not be able to respond alot for a while.

Lorelei is right on about that, if you can't be trusted at work how can we trust you to be an honest Christian scholar. This discussion is over. If you want to continue the discussion buy a computer and surf the web honestly.

 

[ONENESS]

Originally posted by Chemnitz:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> It is so easy to see that the "Name" In Matthew 28:19 is singular. Father, Son, and Holy Ghost do not decribe three Names of Three diffrent people. If that were the case Jesus would have said, "Baptize them in the Names of the the Father, Son, and HOly GHost.

Must we rehash an argument that I already refuted. This is exactly what i am talking about.

I am at work from 8-5 est time. M-F and I usually do not get on a cp on the weekends unless I am at my parents home. But Wednesday I got jumped onto by my boss about being on the net so much at work. So I am trying to be a little bit more sneaky about it so I will not be able to respond alot for a while.

Lorelei is right on about that, if you can't be trusted at work how can we trust you to be an honest Christian scholar. This discussion is over. If you want to continue the discussion buy a computer and surf the web honestly.</font>[/QUOTE]Lorelie, First I was not attacking you nor was i trying to go back against my appology. I was just makeing a point.

I was not asking you to comment, just trying to make a point how if someone does what they say they do, Does their actions agree

I knew i probably should not have put that down, I new the other two people in the Godhead would have commented on that.

But you are right, BTW Chemitz Im not a scholar, just someone that studies the bible.

As far as me being sneaky, Did you bother to tell me what all you have done wrong? And please I am not asking you to. You have your faults and I have mine.

But No job is going to keep me from shareing the word of God with someone.

Maybe i will get punished when i get to heaven but oh well, I'll be there.

Dont read to much into it guys

 

[Lorelei]

No job is going to keep you from preaching the word of God? And what kind of witness are you being at work? Even slaves were told to obey their masters even when thier masters were harsh. Why? Because it would help to make the gospel more attractive to them. You know, that practice what you preach thing. It really helps if you do it.

Here you go again, making excuses totally IGNORING the Word of God. With each post and each defense you help to prove that you are indeed a false prophet who cares only about his own personal gain rather than what the Word of God actually says.

Eph 6:5-8

5 Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. 6 Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but like slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart. 7 Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not men, 8 because you know that the Lord will reward everyone for whatever good he does, whether he is slave or free.
NIV

Col 3:22-25

22 Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything; and do it, not only when their eye is on you and to win their favor, but with sincerity of heart and reverence for the Lord. 23 Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for men, 24 since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving. 25 Anyone who does wrong will be repaid for his wrong, and there is no favoritism.

NIV

Titus 2:9-10

9 Teach slaves to be subject to their masters in everything, to try to please them, not to talk back to them, 10 and not to steal from them, but to show that they can be fully trusted, so that in every way they will make the teaching about God our Savior attractive.
NIV

1 Peter 2:18-20

18 Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh. 19 For it is commendable if a man bears up under the pain of unjust suffering because he is conscious of God.
NIV

Do you want the verses on those who eat should work for thier food and that we shouldn't be lazy etc etc. What you are doing is stealing from your boss. He is paying you to do a job and you are NOT doing it. If you don't want your job to interfere with your preaching than QUIT it. Otherwise you are thief and a deceiver. Especially in light of the fact that your boss does indeed have a problem with your being on the net so much.

~Lorelei

 

[ONENESS]

Originally posted by Lorelei:
No job is going to keep you from preaching the word of God? And what kind of witness are you being at work? Even slaves were told to obey their masters even when thier masters were harsh. Why? Because it would help to make the gospel more attractive to them. You know, that practice what you preach thing. It really helps if you do it.

Here you go again, making excuses totally IGNORING the Word of God. With each post and each defense you help to prove that you are indeed a false prophet who cares only about his own personal gain rather than what the Word of God actually says.

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Eph 6:5-8

5 Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. 6 Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but like slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart. 7 Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not men, 8 because you know that the Lord will reward everyone for whatever good he does, whether he is slave or free.
NIV

Col 3:22-25

22 Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything; and do it, not only when their eye is on you and to win their favor, but with sincerity of heart and reverence for the Lord. 23 Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for men, 24 since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving. 25 Anyone who does wrong will be repaid for his wrong, and there is no favoritism.

NIV

Titus 2:9-10

9 Teach slaves to be subject to their masters in everything, to try to please them, not to talk back to them, 10 and not to steal from them, but to show that they can be fully trusted, so that in every way they will make the teaching about God our Savior attractive.
NIV

1 Peter 2:18-20

18 Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh. 19 For it is commendable if a man bears up under the pain of unjust suffering because he is conscious of God.
NIV

Do you want the verses on those who eat should work for thier food and that we shouldn't be lazy etc etc. What you are doing is stealing from your boss. He is paying you to do a job and you are NOT doing it. If you don't want your job to interfere with your preaching than QUIT it. Otherwise you are thief and a deceiver. Especially in light of the fact that your boss does indeed have a problem with your being on the net so much.

~Lorelei</font>[/QUOTE]You know its alot eaiser accepting correction than going against it.

I will try to do better.

I told you I would let someone know if they are right, and Lorelie, you and Chemitz are both right. As far as this matter is concerned.

Ill be the first to tell you that I dont do everything I am supposed to.

Thanks

Now Back to the topic

[ September 27, 2002, 01:25 PM: Message edited by: ONENESS ]

 

[ONENESS]

Originally posted by Dualhunter:
Care to comment on who was in attendance at Jesus' baptism?

Im on break guys so dont put me in purgotory.

Concerning the Baptisim of Jesus Christ...

The Man, The voice and the Dove.

How people see this as three persons I do not know. Its just something that I cannot understand. I am in no way trying to belittle you dualhunter. So here goes.

The Dove, The man Jesus, and The voice were all the same person. Its just another beautiful example of gods omnipresence (sp?)

We know that Jesus as a man could not be in every place at one time. But the Spirit inside of that man could. He could be inside of Jesus, A voice from heaven, and a Spirit in the shape of a dove all at the same time.

If God is speaking to a person in China, a Person in America, and A person in Europe, and A person in Russia all at the same time, Does this mean there are four gods? Not at all.

We have to understand what the baptisim was for. Jesus was being baptized to fullfill all rightousness (Matt 3:15). He was not baptized for the same reason you and I are baptized.

He was simply baptized to show the world that he was the Christ. It was to make himself known or to manifest himself as who he was to John and to the witnesses there watching and to those who were getting baptized.

All the things that happened that day were signs for the people and for John the Baptist.

The Dove was for John the Baptist. It was a sign for him to confirm that he was the one who would baptize with the holy ghost. (John:1:32-34)

What about the voice, was it a sperarte person speaking? No it is still the one true God. What was the voice for? It was also for a sign. It was a sign for the People. It was not for the benifit of The Son, but it was for the benifit of the people.

If you look at John 12:28-30 it is another example of Gods voice being heard. And Jesus told them that the voice did not come b/c of me but for your sakes.

There were a few other examples of A voice being heard, and all along it was for the peoples sake.
Matt 3:17, Matt 17:5, John 12:30. It was God letting them Know that Jesus is God.

So it is very easy to understand that the baptisim of Jesus does not add up to three seperate persons, But it does add up that God is omnipresent and that he can be a voice, A dove, and a man all at the same time.

God is so awesome.

God bless

[ September 27, 2002, 04:08 PM: Message edited by: ONENESS ]

 

[ONENESS]

Did you care to respond to that hunter?

I will be back probably on Monday.

Godbless

 

[Dualhunter]

Originally posted by ONENESS:
Did you care to respond to that hunter?

I will be back probably on Monday.

Godbless

You still haven't dealt with the fact that God was present in 3 persons as shown by the Father saying, "this is my Son" and not "this is Me in another form".

 

[ONENESS]

Originally posted by Dualhunter:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by ONENESS:
Did you care to respond to that hunter?

I will be back probably on Monday.

Godbless

You still haven't dealt with the fact that God was present in 3 persons as shown by the Father saying, "this is my Son" and not "this is Me in another form".</font>[/QUOTE]

Originally posted by Dualhunter:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by ONENESS:
Did you care to respond to that hunter?

I will be back probably on Monday.

Godbless

You still haven't dealt with the fact that God was present in 3 persons as shown by the Father saying, "this is my Son" and not "this is Me in another form".</font>[/QUOTE]WHATTT????????

Come on sir, There is no fact that GOd was present in three pErsons. So to say this means he was present in three Gods, Three Lords, Three
Kings, Three Great I AM's, etc.

God was simply One God, One Person, As a Dove, Voice, and man.

Do you believe that God is omnipresent? Do you believe God can be in more than one location at one time without haveing to be devided?

I do not need to adress the fact that there were three persons b/c the bible does not indicate it

God Bless

 

[ONENESS]

Any comments dualhunter?

 

[ONENESS]

Anybody?

 

[Rev. G]

Yeah, I thought this was a CHRISTIAN site, not an Arian one.

Rev. G

P. S. (You are mistaken on this doctrine because you have a faulty understanding of "person.")

[ September 30, 2002, 04:46 PM: Message edited by: Rev. G ]

 

[MEE]

Originally posted by Rev. G:
Yeah, I thought this was a CHRISTIAN site, not an Arian one.

Rev. G

P. S. (You are mistaken on this doctrine because you have a faulty understanding of "person.")

Rev. G, I know that this was in response to "ONENESS" but maybe you could explain the meaning of "person" as concerning the godhead. I have yet to understand what the Trinitarian is meaning when it comes to saying that there are three "persons" in the godhead.

I have a quote, from Billy Graham that says he can't explain it, but just accepts what he thinks the "mystery" means.

I don't want to argue, just an explanation will be sufficient concerning the word "persons."
Thanks........you have a good day!

MEE

 

[ONENESS]

Originally posted by Rev. G:
Yeah, I thought this was a CHRISTIAN site, not an Arian one.

Rev. G

P. S. (You are mistaken on this doctrine because you have a faulty understanding of "person.")

Why the fuss? I thought it was too, *shruggs shoulders"

Maybe its not us that faulty understand the word "person". Maybe its a trinitarian who misunderstands it.

God bless

MEEEEEEEEEEEEE, where have you been? Have not noticed you around in a while. Things going ok?

Good to see you again.

Godbless

 

[MEE]

Originally posted by ONENESS:

MEEEEEEEEEEEEE, where have you been? Have not noticed you around in a while. Things going ok?

Good to see you again.

Godbless[/QB]

Things are great! I've been right here everyday...just ummm...well let's say "lurking" ......trying to figure out the meaning of the word Trinity.

Manifestations of One God I can see, but persons? I dunno!

MEE

 

[GrannyGumbo]

Hey MEE~long time, no see...but I think about ya all the time!

Just Sunday when I read in John 12:44 "Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me" I wondered, how on earth do they(meaning you guys) not understand what this means?

Well, just wanted to check-in, say "howdy", and let ya know I'm still around!

 

[Rev. G]

MEE:

I'm planning on starting a new page dealing with the teaching of the holy Trinity in the next couple of days. Please keep your eyes posted. I hope it will be helpful.

Why the fuss? I thought it was too, *shruggs shoulders" Maybe its not us that faulty understand the word "person". Maybe its a trinitarian who misunderstands it.

Why the fuss, ONENESS? Because you are in reality not a CHRISTIAN - you deny God because you deny the holy Trinity. The Scriptures and Church History stand as witnesses against you in your heretical stand. I realize this probably sounds harsh, but it is, nonetheless, true.

Rev. G