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Options for Fiction Writing within Christianity

I Love An Atheist

Active Member
We all as individuals may be susceptible to some temptations more than others. Those who have an artistic temperament may have special temptation to make their art into idolatry. They may also be at risk of creative output that can be a stumbling block or a trap for their audience members. One may suppose that creative types must have some options and freedom within Biblical parameters. But what should those parameters be?

Various fiction writers have handled creativity and Christianity in various ways. The Catholic (or Anglican?) Christian fantasy fiction writers, J.R.R. Tolkien and C.S. Lewis, have been criticized by both secular purists and by Christian purists. Secular purists have criticized the Christian themes in their works, while Christians have criticized the themes of magic. Some argue their fantasy fiction may have paved the way for later works, like the Harry Potter series, that could be tempting children into wanting to experiment with magic.

Evangelical screenwriter and fiction writer Brian Godawa has written Old Testament fiction series that rely heavily on extra-Biblical sources, as well as his own imagination, for filling in the details. He argues strongly for a role of imagination and imagery, both in interpreting the Bible and in creating works for fiction and screen.

On the other hand, it may be argued that the novel form itself would not exist outside of a Christian conceptual framework. Traditionally fiction has often featured themes of good vs. evil. Not all religious and spiritual traditions teach good vs. evil. Traditionally fictional plots have often been driven forward by characters' moral decision points. Not all religious and spiritual traditions have taught that this life is about making moral choices. Traditionally the fictional timeline has had a beginning, middle and end. Not all cultures have believed in linear time. Many have believed in cyclical time. Since the novel form, it characters have not been required to be great men of history or mythical heroes or gods or goddesses. The novel form has featured stories about ordinary men and women. Christianity gave a narrative to the little people, where previously the grand narratives had belonged only to heroic men.

The modernist and postmodernist innovations to storytelling have often involved changing or subverting each of the traditional features. Anti-heroes have been presented as sympathetic, good and evil have been reversed or made into endless shades of gray, timelines have been handled in non-linear ways and many other traditional concepts have been challenged.

Influences on modernism and postmodernism have included sources with both occult influences and Frankfurt school pedigrees. For just one example, Freud was influenced by the Lurianic Kabbalah. It would be impossible to overstate the influence of Freud -- even though it is mostly Freudian revisionism and not Freud's ideas in their original form -- on the arts.

I don't have a narrowly defined question, but I've suggested just a few of the many issues, and now I'm asking for thoughts in a wide open manner. I am especially interested in any thoughts as to how a certain denomination may be prone to affect one's approach to issues of creativity within Christian parameters.
 

Steven Yeadon

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
The Catholic (or Anglican?) Christian fantasy fiction writers, J.R.R. Tolkien and C.S. Lewis,

C.S. Lewis was Anglican; J.R.R. Tolkien was Roman Catholic

Secular purists have criticized the Christian themes in their works, while Christians have criticized the themes of magic. Some argue their fantasy fiction may have paved the way for later works, like the Harry Potter series, that could be tempting children into wanting to experiment with magic.

The main issue is that we have occult supernatural powers represented in these works. There is an important world of difference between Christian miracles given by God and occult practices. Every magic system I have come across to date in fantasy fiction, which is a lot given my history, is occult in its rule set. Ideally, all real world occult practices would be evil in fantasy fiction and real world signs and wonders would be good.

Evangelical screenwriter and fiction writer Brian Godawa has written Old Testament fiction series that rely heavily on extra-Biblical sources, as well as his own imagination, for filling in the details. He argues strongly for a role of imagination and imagery, both in interpreting the Bible and in creating works for fiction and screen.

I don't know the works of this man at all, but here I would be worried about adding to the bible or taking away from it. Veggie Tales can be upsetting to people when it does bible stories, because it makes light of something completely evil, such as adultery and murder, in order to be "kid-friendly." Thus, changing the bible stories drastically to make its point.

On the other hand, it may be argued that the novel form itself would not exist outside of a Christian conceptual framework. Traditionally fiction has often featured themes of good vs. evil. Not all religious and spiritual traditions teach good vs. evil. Traditionally fictional plots have often been driven forward by characters' moral decision points. Not all religious and spiritual traditions have taught that this life is about making moral choices. Traditionally the fictional timeline has had a beginning, middle and end. Not all cultures have believed in linear time. Many have believed in cyclical time. Since the novel form, it characters have not been required to be great men of history or mythical heroes or gods or goddesses. The novel form has featured stories about ordinary men and women. Christianity gave a narrative to the little people, where previously the grand narratives had belonged only to heroic men.

There is nothing evil in the creation in its own nature (Romans 14:14). The novel simply seems to be a mode of telling a story, it is therefore a format of how to tell a story. This would make it clean along with other modes of telling stories. It is the evil stories and worlds devised that are wicked, not the delivery mechanism.

The bigger issue worth discussing is whether it can be a Christian endeavor to write myths. At first brush it doesn't seem so, but I will ruminate on this. The biggest problem I know of is that the bible would see not to allow for stories with gods and demigods, those with innate occult supernatural power, as we see in most mythology and fantasy fiction.

The modernist and postmodernist innovations to storytelling have often involved changing or subverting each of the traditional features. Anti-heroes have been presented as sympathetic, good and evil have been reversed or made into endless shades of gray, timelines have been handled in non-linear ways and many other traditional concepts have been challenged.

The real problem here is that these thinkers have taken out a definition of good and evil. Without a solid definition for righteousness and wickedness, a Law as it were in line with Christian morality, stories become immoral by Christian standards almost immediately, if not immediately.

Influences on modernism and postmodernism have included sources with both occult influences and Frankfurt school pedigrees. For just one example, Freud was influenced by the Lurianic Kabbalah. It would be impossible to overstate the influence of Freud -- even though it is mostly Freudian revisionism and not Freud's ideas in their original form -- on the arts.

Thank you for the new info to me.
 

Steven Yeadon

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I have included all of my ruminations:

Observations on Fantasy Fiction


Fantasy fiction tends to be in love with the occult, which it calls magic, glamorizes war, includes sexual immorality as just part of life, and loves violence as something "cool."

Fantasy fiction is based almost entirely on pagan epics. Pagan epics are religious documents, called myths, and by basing themselves on myths, fantasy fiction is an exaltation of pagan values and beliefs. Values that are unrighteous and beliefs that are idolatrous.

Fantasy worlds are usually terrible because the only people of importance with any cosmic meaning to their lives are those that can take lives the best with command or skill. Everyone else just lives simple lives without importance or cosmic significance. These unimportant people mainly have one aim to their life: enjoying the earth, without anything transcendent or otherworldly like the Gospel of Jesus Christ in their lives.

Every cosmology is a religion, fictitious cosmologies are just fictitious religions. Every fantasy fiction setting is a fictitious universe. This should warn us against getting involved with all manner of fictitious religions and universes that war against biblical truths.

Observation on Science Fiction

The whole point of science fiction seems to be to fantasize about outer space warfare, glamorize violence and sexual immorality, and make foolish commentaries about the world and how things should be.

Observation on all Fiction

When you take the LORD out of a fictional setting, as nearly everyone does, you have given that setting over to eternal night. At least in the real world of non-make-believe we have some sense of temporal justice through the LORD as explained to us in the books of the prophets. We have eternal justice on the other side of death and on the other side of Jesus’ return. A setting without the LORD is folly, fools say there is no God, and fools make worlds that make more sense to them than this one, by taking Him out of it.

Can there be a Christian fantasy fiction?

The problem here is first the need for a Christian epic. The closest thing it has been argued to such a thing is the Gospel of Mark. This makes sense if you understand that our war is not against people, flesh and blood, but against enemies in the heavenly realms. We fight them in cosmic ways by doing seemingly un-miraculous things here on Earth. Also, we must understand that the values of the Kingdom are foreign to those of the world. The world wants to win through temporal conquest and the bloodshed of enemies, but God has a very different understanding and conquered sin through the bloodshed of His Son.

The second issue is that our God, Yahweh, is the one immutable aspect of existence. So, do not make a counterfeit God to rule a fantastical world. To do so is to make God into a part of existence that can be compartmentalized and extracted from reality.

The third issue is that Jesus is Yahweh’s Son and the Holy Spirit His Spirit. You cannot have the Father without the Son, and why would we abandon the Spirit of God? The Son and Spirit are immutable. In fact, so is the Cross in a world where there is sin.

Fourth, there is the issue of the occult. Any supernatural aspect of a fictitious universe will mirror biblical miracles or occult practices that both exist in the real world. Most fantasy fiction excludes anything like biblical miracles and only uses occult practices explaining them like occultists would in terms of "white and black magics."
 

Steven Yeadon

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
One More Fantasy Fiction Observation:

Fantasy fiction that has magic or supernatural physical ability in them, are in fact depicting a story of characters that in Greek Mythology would have been a group of gods and demigods. Beings of raw occult supernatural power, demons to us in the real world of non-make believe. Thus, to read a standard fantasy novel or series is to become enmeshed with a bunch of mythological gods and demigods and live through pagan mythology or religion. In addition, to play a game like Dungeons and Dragons is to pretend to be a bunch of mythological gods and demigods, which is to pretend to live through pagan mythology or religion.
 
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atpollard

Well-Known Member
I belong to a Christian Writer's Guild (to cheer on a friend who loves to write) and these people tiptoe over broken glass terrified that they will present some Christian Truth wrong and come under attack by the Church. The reality relayed by those who are succesful writers and publishers is that nobody wants to read a bad story ... Christian or otherwise. So the task is to focus on their craft. To tell a good story and to tell it well. Then people will want to read it.

If the writer has a non-Christian world view, then their stories will capture that non-Christian world view. If the writer has a Christian world view, then their stories will capture that Christian world view ... whatever the genre.

This knee-jerk reaction against creativity and against anything that is not over-sanitized pablum is part of what makes Christian Music and Christian Movies and Christian Books ... frankly, second rate. The story of Moses is rife with both Signs and Magic. Tell me it isn't a great scene in the bible when Elijah is heckling the blody priest of Baal to shout louder because maybe Baal has gone to use the lavatory. If you want a scene that is all about getting real, how about the lady with the tent peg! Or the left handed man whose sword disappered into the fat man's navel. Or the Levite who grabbed a spear and killed a man inside the Tabernacle ... the God shows up and says "He just saved all your lives, because I was so angry and all of you were doing nothing!"

Yet we are afraid of anything that has the word Magic in it or harsher than a 'G' rating.

 

Steven Yeadon

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Yet we are afraid of anything that has the word Magic in it or harsher than a 'G' rating.

You have a point when it comes to G ratings. As I pointed out Veggie Tales can butcher bible stories to make them "kid-friendly." Something that warps the scriptures and irritates some people I know. The bible and the real world are not rated G, and trying to force them to be makes no sense. What I speak against is the idea that violence is "cool" or glamorous as well as the idea that butchering one's enemies is how we save the world.

On Magic I must disagree. If magic means a clear distinction between miracles, as they worked in history as recorded in the bible, and what we call in the real world occult practices, including powerful spells; Then I see no problem. The issue is in making an alien world to this one where spell casters are good guys and miracle workers by the power of God Almighty are bad guys.
 
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atpollard

Well-Known Member
“I believe God made me for a purpose, but he also made me fast!
And when I run I feel his pleasure.” ― Eric Liddell

So, too ... artists.
 

Deacon

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Some people just don't like fiction.
They look at things through a black and white filter.
I see grays; I like color and its various shades.

I'm a wide reader; I read a few books a week.
I love fiction, particularly science fiction.

I often find Christian fiction boring and unimaginative.
Tolkien and C.S. Lewis are exceptional Christian authors.

I guess those people that dislike fiction would have balked at Jesus' parables.
Readers should read fiction like we read his parables
  • Look for the main point of the parable, a central truth of the parable. It often helps to look at what comes at the end of the parable, authors tend to emphasize the point they are making by how they end a story.
  • Make sure that any other truths gleaned from the parable are in harmony with it. In most parables the details and secondary points are there to reinforce the main point or to elaborate on it.
“Parables were originally told to conceal, so they are not always that clear in their meaning.”
"Parables are the windows in the house, not the foundation stones.”

Rob
 

InTheLight

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Evangelical screenwriter and fiction writer Brian Godawa has written Old Testament fiction series that rely heavily on extra-Biblical sources, as well as his own imagination, for filling in the details. He argues strongly for a role of imagination and imagery, both in interpreting the Bible and in creating works for fiction and screen.

I've seen Mr. Godawa's books "The Chronicles of the Nephilim" on Amazon Kindle and am intrigued. However, it is a seven or eight book series at $5.95 a pop. This has stopped me from taking the plunge.

I read a lot of fiction. I make it a point to read books with Christian themes, either overt themes or subtle themes. There is some really, really bad Christian fiction out there (no shortage of bad novels about the Nephilim, demons, angels, and the Rapture for example). It's important that the stories have coherent plots with well developed characters and believable dialogue. Cussing is best avoided, IMO.

I think the author should be allowed to take some artistic license to tell a good story. However, at no time should fundamental doctrine be denied or usurped. The gospel should be worked into the story in some way. Presenting the gospel without being preachy is a difficult tightrope to tread. So many Christian novels are basically set pieces of dialogue about philosophy with scant action. How many times can the main characters sit down at a meal (have long drives in a car, be stuck in prison, etc.) and have extensive discussions about spiritual things? A character having a conversion experience is a desirable plot point but not a necessity, as cliches should be avoided.


Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
 
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Alcott

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I have written a book of short stories about a fictional singles' class in a fictional Baptist church in a fictional Texas town. I tried to submit it for publication years ago, but had no success. Now, just in the past couple of weeks I have begun writing the characters again as an aid to a unit of lessons in our Bible class about spiritual gifts. So getting back into it, I may begin revising the old, as well as writing new, and make some more attempts.
 

atpollard

Well-Known Member
So many Christian novels are basically set pieces of dialogue about philosophy with scant action. How many times can the main characters sit down at a meal (have long drives in a car, be stuck in prison, etc.) and have extensive discussions about spiritual things? A character having a conversion experience is a desirable plot point but not a necessity, as cliches should be avoided
One piece of advice from experienced writers to new writers is "show, don't tell" ... basically avoid just what you complain about. Let the actions communicate the message rather than long, dull narations or dialogues.
 

Deacon

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
One piece of advice from experienced writers to new writers is "show, don't tell" ... basically avoid just what you complain about. Let the actions communicate the message rather than long, dull narrations or dialogues.
One on my big complaints about novelists today revolves around this very problem.
With digital books anyone can write a book, and sequels.
Without a editor, novels have been getting longer and longer.
Sometimes an author will spend a page or two describing a simple task that doesn't add anything to the story...drives me mad!

Rob
 

InTheLight

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
One on my big complaints about novelists today revolves around this very problem.
With digital books anyone can write a book, and sequels.
Without a editor, novels have been getting longer and longer.
Sometimes an author will spend a page or two describing a simple task that doesn't add anything to the story...drives me mad!

Rob

Ha ha!!

Yes, and another annoyance is the constant rehashing and reviewing of the plot. As if the reader isn't smart enough to remember it. I also loathe excessive and unrealistic exposition by characters when dialoguing.
 

I Love An Atheist

Active Member
The problem here is first the need for a Christian epic. The closest thing it has been argued to such a thing is the Gospel of Mark. This makes sense if you understand that our war is not against people, flesh and blood, but against enemies in the heavenly realms. We fight them in cosmic ways by doing seemingly un-miraculous things here on Earth. Also, we must understand that the values of the Kingdom are foreign to those of the world. The world wants to win through temporal conquest and the bloodshed of enemies, but God has a very different understanding and conquered sin through the bloodshed of His Son.

I think this is very insightful. I like the approach of taking cues from the Bible.
 

I Love An Atheist

Active Member
I've seen Mr. Godawa's books "The Chronicles of the Nephilim" on Amazon Kindle and am intrigued. However, it is a seven or eight book series at $5.95 a pop. This has stopped me from taking the plunge.

I didn't find his fiction well written nor his characterizations and plots biblical. For instance, his Noah hunted and killed genetically tainted Nephilim. This is a part of the overarching theme of Godawa's series. He calls it the war of the serpent against the seed or something like that. So it's a form of the ancient apostasy of "serpent seed theory". This apostasy does not have a very encouraging history, since it influenced the KKK. Before that it long influenced anti-Semitism.

Doing some more digging into Godawa's ideas, I found he was influenced quite a bit by a theology scholar named Dr. Michael Heiser, who has gone on Coast to Coast AM many times. I am personally suspicious of anybody who goes repeatedly on Coast to Coast AM, since it has long been funded by foundations such as the Tides Foundation. It was also one of Laurance Rockefeller's pet projects.

Doing more digging, I found Heiser has influenced a subset of Evangelical end times conspiracy theories, namely the theory that alien hybrids (Nephilim) are among us and that the anti-Christ will be an alien.

I read a lot of fiction. I make it a point to read books with Christian themes, either overt themes or subtle themes. There is some really, really bad Christian fiction out there (no shortage of bad novels about the Nephilim, demons, angels, and the Rapture for example). It's important that the stories have coherent plots with well developed characters and believable dialogue. Cussing is best avoided, IMO.

Agreed on the importance of good plots, characters and dialogue. Could you give examples of those among fiction with Christian themes? I have not yet read very much Christian fiction.

I think the author should be allowed to take some artistic license to tell a good story. However, at no time should fundamental doctrine be denied or usurped. The gospel should be worked into the story in some way. Presenting the gospel without being preachy is a difficult tightrope to tread. So many Christian novels are basically set pieces of dialogue about philosophy with scant action. How many times can the main characters sit down at a meal (have long drives in a car, be stuck in prison, etc.) and have extensive discussions about spiritual things? A character having a conversion experience is a desirable plot point but not a necessity, as cliches should be avoided.

This is the danger of any fiction created to promote any idea. It goes for ideological fiction, too. Most Soviet fiction and art was terrible for that very reason. Ayn Rand's novels are quite flawed as well, with John Galt's windbag speeches and other problems.

What's funny is that the Bible tells a lot of stories but doesn't go on and on with speeches.
 

I Love An Atheist

Active Member
I guess those people that dislike fiction would have balked at Jesus' parables.
Readers should read fiction like we read his parables
  • Look for the main point of the parable, a central truth of the parable. It often helps to look at what comes at the end of the parable, authors tend to emphasize the point they are making by how they end a story.
  • Make sure that any other truths gleaned from the parable are in harmony with it. In most parables the details and secondary points are there to reinforce the main point or to elaborate on it.
“Parables were originally told to conceal, so they are not always that clear in their meaning.”
"Parables are the windows in the house, not the foundation stones.”

Rob

That is a good point about Jesus' parables. In fact the Bible is full of multiple literary genres, from poetry to parables to even fairy tales (God finding Israel in the desert and clothing her).
 

I Love An Atheist

Active Member
The story of Moses is rife with both Signs and Magic. Tell me it isn't a great scene in the bible when Elijah is heckling the blody priest of Baal to shout louder because maybe Baal has gone to use the lavatory. If you want a scene that is all about getting real, how about the lady with the tent peg! Or the left handed man whose sword disappered into the fat man's navel. Or the Levite who grabbed a spear and killed a man inside the Tabernacle ... the God shows up and says "He just saved all your lives, because I was so angry and all of you were doing nothing!"

Those are great examples.
 

InTheLight

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Doing some more digging into Godawa's ideas, I found he was influenced quite a bit by a theology scholar named Dr. Michael Heiser, who has gone on Coast to Coast AM many times. I am personally suspicious of anybody who goes repeatedly on Coast to Coast AM, since it has long been funded by foundations such as the Tides Foundation. It was also one of Laurance Rockefeller's pet projects.

That's discouraging. I can cross him off my "want to read" list.

Doing more digging, I found Heiser has influenced a subset of Evangelical end times conspiracy theories, namely the theory that alien hybrids (Nephilim) are among us and that the anti-Christ will be an alien.

I've read two of Heisler's fiction books, "The Facade" and "The Portent". Besides being terribly written there was nothing in there about the anti-Christ being an alien.

Agreed on the importance of good plots, characters and dialogue. Could you give examples of those among fiction with Christian themes? I have not yet read very much Christian fiction.

If you like legal thrillers any book by Randy Singer is excellent. I think Directed Verdict was his first and there are recurring characters in some subsequent, but not all of his novels. He is an excellent author.

If you like Science Fiction, I highly recommend The Lamb Among the Stars trilogy, by Chris Walley. Absolutely superb. I did a review on BB years ago:
The Lamb Among the Stars Trilogy--Best Christian Sci-Fi Ever!

The Christ Clone Trilogy by James BeauSeigneur was very intriguing. I understand another writer is tackling the same subject matter in The Shroud Conspiracy, but I haven't read that one and so far as I know the writer makes no claims to being a Christian.

C.S. Lewis Space Trilogy is excellent, though dated.

A couple of books by Shane Johnson, "Ice" and "The Last Guardian" were well done. The Last Guardian is more of a fantasy then sci-fi, but I enjoyed it.

Action and Adventure
Alton Gansky does a good job.

I have found that the usual suspects, Ted Dekker, Frank Peretti, the Left Behind books, etc. just aren't that good, really.

If I can think of more favorite authors I'll post them.
 
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