• Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

"ordained to eternal life" - retrospective anachronistic nuance

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Silverhair, I never said that everyone should be saved simply because everyone is a sinner. That is your inference, not my argument.

Your response demonstrates a complete failure to comprehend basic theological distinctions and scriptural chronology. You are accusing me of teaching universalism and "salvation without faith" simply because you cannot answer the explicit timeline of the verses I laid before you.
Let’s look at the absolute collapse of your objections:

1. Dismantling Your Universalist Strawman

You claim: "Since we are all sinners. By your logic then everyone should be saved."

Silverhair, this is a basic failure in logic. Asserting that Christ saved sinners does not mean He saved every individual sinner universally. As I have proven repeatedly from Scripture, Christ died for a specific, definite people—His sheep (John 10:11, 15), His Church (Ephesians 5:25), and the elect (Romans 8:33).

The category of people Christ saved is "sinners," but the scope of that category is strictly limited to the elect remnant written in the Lamb's Book of Life. I am not preaching universal salvation; I am preaching a successful salvation for the specific people Christ actually represented at the cross.

2. The Unbending Timeline of Romans 5:10


You write: "No one is saved before they trust in God. It is your false theology that teaches the error of salvation without faith."

Silverhair, stop arguing with my theology and look at the text of Romans 5:10:


Answer the text: When the death of God's Son occurred in 33 AD, what was our spiritual status? We were enemies and unbelievers.

If we were not legally reconciled to God until after we trusted Him, then Paul would have written: "We were reconciled after we stopped being enemies and believed." But the Holy Spirit says the exact opposite. The legal clearance (The Legal Phase) was a completed, objective reality at the cross while the elect were still historical enemies in active unbelief.

The True Office of Faith in the Five Phases

I do not teach "salvation without faith." I teach that faith is a vital component of salvation, but it is an effect, not a cause. Let’s look at the proper timeline to correct your confusion:
  • Phase II (The Legal Phase - 33 AD): Christ completely satisfies God's justice, removes the judicial debt, and legally reconciles His elect while they are yet enemies (Romans 5:10).
  • Phase III (The Vital Phase - Time): The Holy Spirit sovereignly quickens the dead sinner, giving them spiritual life apart from their cooperation (Ephesians 2:1, 5).
  • Phase IV (The Practical Phase - Conversion): Because they have been legally redeemed and vitally quickened, they are given the gift of faith (1 Tim. 1:14). They look to the Gospel, repent, and believe.
Faith is the spiritual eye that sees and enjoys a salvation that was already purchased and secure. Faith does not create the legal fact of reconciliation; it receives the manifestative knowledge of it.

When Paul was on the road to Damascus, he was a blasphemer and a persecutor in total unbelief (1 Tim. 1:13). Yet, God's exceeding abundant grace met him and gave him faith and love (1 Tim. 1:14). God did not wait for Paul to manufacture faith to trigger his salvation; God sovereignly saved Paul out of his unbelief.

Your theology turns faith into a human contribution that seals the deal. Scriptural soteriology declares that faith is the fruit of a finished work. Stop rewriting the timeline of Romans 5:10, Silverhair, and submit to the text.





BF you said "Jesus saved sinners/unbelievers, duh"

My response was that following your logic then all are saved as all are sinners.

But the bible say that only those that trust in Him will be saved which shows that your prior argument "No one can believe in Christ until He saves them!" is false.

You try to argue from your calvinist position but the bible does not support your view as the verses that I posted prove.

That you continue to reject the clear word of God is troubling.
 

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
"No one can believe in Christ until He saves them!" is false.
No its true, when we are in a lost condition, the Gospel is hid from us and we believe not, because satan blinds our minds 2 Cor 4:3-4

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

We have to be saved from this condition before we can believe the Gospel.
 

Ben1445

Well-Known Member
of course, they unbelievers until they believe. Like Cornelius, He was saved legally and vitally before he heard the Gospel and believed. A lost person cannot believe the Gospel because its hid to them that are Lost, and satan has blinded their minds to believe not 2 Cor 4:3-4

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
So don’t hide the gospel
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kai

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Right He does, duh. The elect/Sheep start off as unbelievers ! You think the elect are born already converted ? No they enter the world like this Eph 2:2-3, even though they were chosen in Christ before the foundation Eph 1:4

If you are in Christ then you are saved BF. So you have just said that those the Calvinists say are "elect" before the foundation of the world must have been saved so as I said before what need is there for faith in Christ Jesus under your false theology.
 

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
No its true, when we are in a lost condition, the Gospel is hid from us and we believe not, because satan blinds our minds 2 Cor 4:3-4

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

We have to be saved from this condition before we can believe the Gospel.

Not what the word of God say BF.

But it is what your false theology says.

I will trust the word of God and you can trust your calvinism.
 
Top