I prefer to speak of the work of the Spirit prior to repentance and faith in Christ.
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Order of salvation...
- Thread starter Jarthur001
- Start date
I prefer to speak of the work of the Spirit prior to repentance and faith in Christ.
That work of the Holy Spirit upon that unsaved sinner preceding individual Salvation doesn't imply regeneration though. But you might be.
Darren
The importance is that the sinner is brought to repentance and faith in Christ.
Agree. You don't want to state whether the Holy Spirit regenerates the sinner before they repent/believe or after?
Darren
Are you a Calvinist of that bent?
I best describe myself (guessing) I think as a 4 point Arminian (even though systems aren't really my thing). Anyway I'm just asking, you don't have to answer, no big deal.
:thumbs:
Darren
Actually it is quite important if taken in context. Is this passage speaking of a 'believer' or a non-believer - Remember in context.
When one sincerely confesses his sin, asks for forgiveness and knows that Jesus paid for our sins on the cross. Only the indwelling Holy Spirit can give us the knowledge that Jesus took away our sins.
I'm more concern with a person coming to repentance and faith in Christ for salvation, not the order of salvation. :thumbsup:
Tom Butler
New Member
As all of us of every stripe should be. But since this is a debate forum, this is a good place to discuss it.
Jarthur001
Active Member
Lets ask it both ways Allan.
1st the verse again.
***********************
STEP 1
Lets say this is a believer..
now lets ask ..
When was the believer granted repentance?
1) it was before they came to the knowledge of the truth
or
2) it was after they came to the knowledge of the truth.
Please answer this and then move to the next step.
****************
STEP 2
Lets say they are non-believers...
now lets ask ..
When was the non-believer granted repentance?
1) it was before they came to the knowledge of the truth
or
2) it was after they came to the knowledge of the truth.
********************
Now if you have different answer please tell me why.
Last edited by a moderator:
Tom, discuss What?
What is important in evangelism is telling people that they're lost in their sins and only Jesus can saved them, because he lived their life, died their death, was buried, was raised, ascended, and is coming again to right the world's wrongs.
What does the order of salvation have to do with evangelism?
The gospel is what we need to share and live in evangelism, not polemics.
Can you explain this? How does the belief in free will scare people away from the gospel?
That is a curious statement. I would think that telling someone they may or may not be the elect (most likely not...there are "few" who are) and that alone depends on their eternity would be scare people!
Say what?? The closest I can think of what you may mean is those whom pull altar calls to manipulate people into praying sinners prayers to get the "result" that seems to "look like" a heart felt response but was merely the knee jerk reaction because they felt guilty and got scared by the picture of hell and the lake of fire, into responding. So the church accounces they had 10 saved yet most likely none were actually saved. My former pentacostal church used tactics like that to pressure people into decisions for Christ, even forcing people to pray sinners prayers whom didn't want to anyway, then they would inform them they were saved and needed to come to church and live for God..etc
Darren
Jarthur001
Active Member
Notice yet another dodge.
There should not be ANY debate as to what truth is.
In the Gospel of John Jesus says, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me.” John 14:6
But that has NOTHING to do with WHEN, now does it?
So I will ask yet again...
***********************
STEP 1
Lets say this is a believer..
now lets ask ..
When was the believer granted repentance?
1) it was before they came to the knowledge of the truth
or
2) it was after they came to the knowledge of the truth.
Please answer this and then move to the next step.
****************
STEP 2
Lets say they are non-believers...
now lets ask ..
When was the non-believer granted repentance?
1) it was before they came to the knowledge of the truth
or
2) it was after they came to the knowledge of the truth.
********************
why the fear to answer?
Jarthur001
Active Member
reread....he didn't say that.