Ordinances only symbolic?

[Michael Wrenn]

Are the ordinances only symbolic, or, as Calvin believed, with the participation of the Holy Spirit, faith is nourished and strengthened by the ordinances? Of course if one holds to that, this would make them sacraments rather than ordinances, as this would affirm the spiritual presence of Jesus at the administration of them.

But isn't that closer to the truth, rather than the merely symbolic view? Isn't Jesus spiritually present in everything we do in His name? Of course that would make sacraments innumerable, as the Quakers believed, and make all of life sacramental.

 

[saturneptune]

Are the ordinances only symbolic, or, as Calvin believed, with the participation of the Holy Spirit, faith is nourished and strengthened by the ordinances? Of course if one holds to that, this would make them sacraments rather than ordinances, as this would affirm the spiritual presence of Jesus at the administration of them.

But isn't that closer to the truth, rather than the merely symbolic view? Isn't Jesus spiritually present in everything we do in His name? Of course that would make sacraments innumerable, as the Quakers believed, and make all of life sacramental.

Every Christian has the Holy Spirit living in him or her. Every aspect of life is a gift from the Lord. Christ is present in a spiritual manner with us everyday. The Lord's Supper is in remembence of Him, body and blood shed. Baptism is a public profession of faith in Jesus Christ. Of course Christ is with us during the ordinances and all of our life in a spiritual manner.

The ordinances/sacraments are not magic acts or a physical manifestation of our Savior. That is so much hocus pocus. It reminds me of Simon in Acts trying to buy the power of the Holy Spirit, or some of the Indiana Jones movies, attaching magical powers to relics of Christ. To attach the power of the Living God to some cheap man made belief is beyond excuse. To think what man has done to the Lord's church in a mere 2000 years. Some denominations are based on such nonsense.

 

[annsni]

I think that whenever we obey God, our faith is strengthened. It's not just through certain acts but ALL acts of obedience.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Are the ordinances only symbolic, or, as Calvin believed, with the participation of the Holy Spirit, faith is nourished and strengthened by the ordinances? Of course if one holds to that, this would make them sacraments rather than ordinances, as this would affirm the spiritual presence of Jesus at the administration of them.

But isn't that closer to the truth, rather than the merely symbolic view? Isn't Jesus spiritually present in everything we do in His name? Of course that would make sacraments innumerable, as the Quakers believed, and make all of life sacramental. (As the Roman Catholics believe)

Apples & oranges....take Baptism

http://www.vor.org/truth/1689/1689bc28.html

The second London Confession of 1689 underscored that "immersion", or dipping of the person in water, is necessary to the due {proper}administration of the ordinance. I view its level of importance by its salvic grace & if its not there then its a ritual. &, from my prospective anyway....it's not there.

Calvin on the other hand as noted by Presby or Reformed (Dutch), tried to reformulate it from RCC (baptismal rebirth) by concocting some grafting in nonsense & old covenant sign of circumcision making it a new covenant sign of baptism. Rrriiigggghhhhttttt!:laugh:

 

[Michael Wrenn]

Good answers, everybody! I like what all of you said.

 

[billwald]

In several heathen countries it is Christian baptism which alienates the person from the local population. In other words, the heathen understand the Christian sacraments better than Baptists do.

 

[annsni]

In several heathen countries it is Christian baptism which alienates the person from the local population. In other words, the heathen understand the Christian sacraments better than Baptists do.

Since baptism shows clearly where one stands even if you don't speak a word, and all Baptists I know understand this well, I don't believe your conclusion is true.

 

[Yeshua1]

Apples & oranges....take Baptism

http://www.vor.org/truth/1689/1689bc28.html

The second London Confession of 1689 underscored that "immersion", or dipping of the person in water, is necessary to the due {proper}administration of the ordinance. I view its level of importance by its salvic grace & if its not there then its a ritual. &, from my prospective anyway....it's not there.

Calvin on the other hand as noted by Presby or Reformed (Dutch), tried to reformulate it from RCC (baptismal rebirth) by concocting some grafting in nonsense & old covenant sign of circumcision making it a new covenant sign of baptism. Rrriiigggghhhhttttt!:laugh:

BIG difference between seeing that the Lord, by the presense of the Spirit, is there with you at taking of the ordiances than saying that they in and by themelves convey additional garce, supplying what was not there beforehand!

 

[mont974x4]

I think that whenever we obey God, our faith is strengthened. It's not just through certain acts but ALL acts of obedience.

Amen and Amen

 

[Salty]

In several heathen countries it is Christian baptism which alienates the person from the local population. In other words, the heathen understand the Christian sacraments better than Baptists do.

Since baptism shows clearly where one stands even if you don't speak a word, and all Baptists I know understand this well, I don't believe your conclusion is true.

Actually, I agree with Bill on this one.
We do not see the full significance of baptism

 

[mont974x4]

Symbolic does not equal unimportant or irrelevant or meaningless.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Symbolic does not equal unimportant or irrelevant or meaningless.

Just wont be used a a token of Grace to get ya to heaven.....but every time a bell rings, an angel gets its wings! :smilewinkgrin:

 

[Yeshua1]

Actually, I agree with Bill on this one.
We do not see the full significance of baptism

We do IF we see it as a sign post to the death/buriel/resurrection of Christ!