Ordination of Women

[Salty]

In Baptist life, I have never heard of anyone being ordained by a denomination. That is a local church activity.

Does anyone else have a different experience or information I don't have?

I was intern pastor of a Free Will Baptist church, in Southern West Virginia. The constitution for the Association stated that fellowshipping churches agreed to allow the Association to be in charge of ordination of pastors.

 

[Baptist Believer]

That depends on which flavor the Baptist church is.

Yep! That's why I didn't make a definitive statement. Baptists are delightfully inconsistent from place to place.

The ABC-USA has a two-step system. Churches may ordain on their own; for the ordination to be recognized by other churches or the denomination's agencies, the ordination must be confirmed by the region. In practice, I suspect, a local-regional ordination is probably the norm.

What is the purpose of having the ordination recognized by the denomination? (I still don't have a clear grasp of the reason why "ordination" has to be recognized by any faith group outside of a local church.)

I was intern pastor of a Free Will Baptist church, in Southern West Virginia. The constitution for the Association stated that fellowshipping churches agreed to allow the Association to be in charge of ordination of pastors.

Interesting! So the Association serves as a denomination, regulating/certifying the leadership of the member churches?

 

[Yeshua1]

Yes, that's right. In the SBC, there would be many churches that would not accept a woman who was ordained. Yet many of those same churches would get upset about it, which is a bit of a strange thing since it indicates that they still find it meaningful, even if they don't believe it is real.

In my view, God ordains people to tasks, whether or not human hands approve of it. There are lots of God-ordained people out there (men and women) that many churches would not dream of "officially" ordaining.

They would not accept a senior pastor ordained as a female, correct? Nor any Female Elders?

 

[Yeshua1]

I was intern pastor of a Free Will Baptist church, in Southern West Virginia. The constitution for the Association stated that fellowshipping churches agreed to allow the Association to be in charge of ordination of pastors.

We are partofthe Great Lakes Baptits association, and those Pastors ordained are recognized by the local assembly and the larger group, in case that they need to step in if aastor needs removal or discipline...

 

[Yeshua1]

Yep! That's why I didn't make a definitive statement. Baptists are delightfully inconsistent from place to place.


What is the purpose of having the ordination recognized by the denomination? (I still don't have a clear grasp of the reason why "ordination" has to be recognized by any faith group outside of a local church.)


Interesting! So the Association serves as a denomination, regulating/certifying the leadership of the member churches?

Many Baptist groups do that, as they are the overseer in in case of a conflict wihtin local assembly on a pastor, if thy need to remove or discipline!

 

[Baptist Believer]

They would not accept a senior pastor ordained as a female, correct? Nor any Female Elders?

I don't know who "they" are. I don't speak for Southern Baptists, so I don't know what any church would necessarily do. In the most recent version of the Baptist Faith & Message of the SBC, they specifically call out that "the office of pastor is limited to men as qualified by Scripture."

Now they are not using the extrabiblical terminology of "senior pastor", and their statement can be interpreted a number of ways. The most straightforward way is that there should not be any women who serve as shepherds - whatever that means. The problem is that in every church I have known - including some who are downright extreme about women not having official leadership roles, there are women who shepherd other members of the body without the title. Often - especially in small churches - the true pastor (the one that the congregation looks to on a longterm and consistent basis) is a woman who has served the congregation faithfully for decades, not the young man that will be there for 20 months and move on.

And I don't know what you mean by "elder." Women serve on committees throughout Baptist life. They are often elders in that sense. Moreover, mature women in the congregation are often looked to as a source of knowledge and guidance.

In many churches, deacons serve as a board of elders, but that is not necessarily biblical either.

 

[Baptist Believer]

We are partofthe Great Lakes Baptits association, and those Pastors ordained are recognized by the local assembly and the larger group, in case that they need to step in if aastor needs removal or discipline...

So you have a denominational hierarchy established where one or more churches can come in and change the leadership of a different local church if the leader falls out of line with what is commonly accepted. That's not autonomy.

 

[rsr]

The church is still autonomous. An example: In 2015 the Connecticut region withdrew the ordination of a pastor accused of bilking an elderly parishioner out of thousands of dollars. The church, however, had the authority to retain him, which it did, until it voted him out, then rescinded the vote and then, finally, dismissed him.

https://baptistnews.com/article/ame...s-minister-charged-with-larceny/#.WFXkcvkrJqM

http://blog.ctnews.com/connecticutp...atford-pastor-fired-rehired-then-fired-again/

 

[JonShaff]

I was intern pastor of a Free Will Baptist church, in Southern West Virginia. The constitution for the Association stated that fellowshipping churches agreed to allow the Association to be in charge of ordination of pastors.

That's partly correct. Associations will have a credential board that interviews the subject and they will give their recommendation. The local body still ordains. I'm still in the fwbs

 

[Salty]

That's partly correct. Associations will have a credential board that interviews the subject and they will give their recommendation. The local body still ordains. I'm still in the fwbs

In this particular association - the local church does not ordain - it is was the association.

 

[Tulipbee]

I never heard of a church that has ordained women at the pulpit

 

[Salty]

I never heard of a church that has ordained women at the pulpit

Many have - including Baptist churches.

 

[Tulipbee]

Many have - including Baptist churches.

How is that possible? I guess there are fake churches

 

[Baptist Believer]

How is that possible? I guess there are fake churches

Or there are Baptist churches that understand the scriptures differently than you.

This thread is not to make an argument for or against the ordination of women for the "senior pastor" role (whatever that means to you), but rather whether women should be ordained for other roles.

 

[annsni]

I never heard of a church that has ordained women at the pulpit

There are many who have women in the pulpit. One is down the block from us - a PCUSA church which also feels that homosexuality is hunky dory. When on vacation on Block Island in Rhode Island, we went to the local Baptist church...which had a woman pastor. I don't know that I would call them "fake churches" but instead either churches in error, disobedience or ignorance. No matter what way they are, they are wrong and I would not attend them.

 

[Jerome]

I never heard of a church that has ordained women at the pulpit

How is that possible? I guess there are fake churches

Ordained Ministers of the Reformed Baptist Church 1888-1966

"In 1901, in Saint John, Ella Hadassah Kinney Sanders, who married the Rev. Dr. Herbert Clayton Sanders in 1893, was the first woman in the Dominion of Canada to be ordained."

 

[Yeshua1]

There are many who have women in the pulpit. One is down the block from us - a PCUSA church which also feels that homosexuality is hunky dory. When on vacation on Block Island in Rhode Island, we went to the local Baptist church...which had a woman pastor. I don't know that I would call them "fake churches" but instead either churches in error, disobedience or ignorance. No matter what way they are, they are wrong and I would not attend them.

The problem isthat there are NO NT verses that support women ordained as eihter Pastors/Elders in a church. Those who advocatefo iteither say Paul was speakingt o just th local setting, or that he did not take into account modern cultural norms...

Again, the scriptures are wriiten to adress this in an ongoing, for all time fashion though!

 

[Yeshua1]

Or there are Baptist churches that understand the scriptures differently than you.

This thread is not to make an argument for or against the ordination of women for the "senior pastor" role (whatever that means to you), but rather whether women should be ordained for other roles.

Cam women be eithr pastors/elders? No, per Bible, yes to all other roles though in church!

 

[Yeshua1]

I don't know who "they" are. I don't speak for Southern Baptists, so I don't know what any church would necessarily do. In the most recent version of the Baptist Faith & Message of the SBC, they specifically call out that "the office of pastor is limited to men as qualified by Scripture."

Now they are not using the extrabiblical terminology of "senior pastor", and their statement can be interpreted a number of ways. The most straightforward way is that there should not be any women who serve as shepherds - whatever that means. The problem is that in every church I have known - including some who are downright extreme about women not having official leadership roles, there are women who shepherd other members of the body without the title. Often - especially in small churches - the true pastor (the one that the congregation looks to on a longterm and consistent basis) is a woman who has served the congregation faithfully for decades, not the young man that will be there for 20 months and move on.

And I don't know what you mean by "elder." Women serve on committees throughout Baptist life. They are often elders in that sense. Moreover, mature women in the congregation are often looked to as a source of knowledge and guidance.

In many churches, deacons serve as a board of elders, but that is not necessarily biblical either.

Elders in Baptist Churches aremale leaders, set apart to teach/guide/lead th local church, an our pastor is the Senior Elder on staff.
There are no scriptures supporting women installed as a Pastor/elder...

 

[Yeshua1]

So you have a denominational hierarchy established where one or more churches can come in and change the leadership of a different local church if the leader falls out of line with what is commonly accepted. That's not autonomy.

No, if the Pastor is into sinning, such as adultery, taking money , false doctrines etc, and when confronted, refuses to repent and accept church discipline!