Ordination Questions?

[PeterM]

My point is that people who pursue higher education are the type that are more typically gifted and driven to be leaders. Secondly, those who pursue higher education are typically better equipped to be good preachers of the Word.

So my point is that not that education makes one a better leader (though in some cases it certainly equips gifted people). My point is that leaders are certain types of people.

Not to be argumentative because I tend to agree with your thinkning to a point... but, in fairness, you could add to that list:

1. Those who are insecure in themselves/the Lord.
2. Those who want to be noticed by others.
3. Those who are seeking a better/more prominent position.
4. Those who are trying to climb the denominational ladder.

For the record, I received an M.Div from MABTS and am praying through/contemplating working toward a D.Min. In that process those are the questions I am asking myself. I am in a small church and am content to stay here for the rest of my days if that is what the Lord desires.

 

[Jim1999]

There was a laddie in College named Breeze
Weighed down with Ba's and BD's
Said the doctor, "It's plain,"
You are killing yourself by degrees."

In the early days it was get some Bible training and get out into the field. Most of our Baptist preachers had 3 yrs Bible college or 4 yrs seminary. Few had an undergraduate general arts degree. As a rule, we got along fine, preached well and led the churches on Bible training. The one's with all the education were all liberals.

Then the DD's started to roll and everyone craved to get one, sometimes even "cheated" a little to get one. It wasn't until the 60's we started to see more men with advanced degrees in theology. So, to-day, I say get all you can at the start and remain humble about them, but ready to lead to Christ through the word, not through your education.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Navymans]

Ordination is a time to examine a man's fitness for ministry doctrinally speaking. Those who say that ordination is not biblical seems to be ignoring the biblical teaching that a man is to be tested prior to ministering. It is true that God calls a man, but that call is testified to by a local church who has had the opportunity to examine a man's life and doctrine and affirm his call. This should never be ignored in favor of some mystical "God called me" answer.

A candidate should write an extensive doctrinal statement covering all areas of biblical doctrine. This statement should be 12-15 pages in length (1 to 1 1/2 pages for each doctrine. Prior to the council, this statement should be distributed to all members of the council for their review, and at the ordination council, questions should be asked to determine or clarify the beliefs and positions of a candidate.

The council should consist of like-minded pastors who are doctrinally sound and knowledgeable, who can ask intelligent questions. More than a rudimentary knowledge of doctrine should be required.

Ultimately the church body calls the council in order to enlist the help of godly men who are knowledgeable in doctrine. The council then makes a recommendation to the body either to ordain or not to ordain. The body may accept or reject the council's recommendation, but it would seem foolish to call a council and ask for their help, and then ignore their advice.

I must disagree with this, God does let me repeat this God does call the man to preach, not a council nor a man nor a deacon or a professor at some school but God, and in answering this call the man should be willing to obtain a education if possible by either a school or from fellow pastors and he should preach every chance he gets for a time then come to be ordained, but he should never ever be subject to hours of questions's by anyone, now most men that surrender to preach stay in their home church during training so these people know him and are the best source of type of man he is, not a group of pastors who may never have seen this man in their lives. I dont think God would approve of this type of thing and I for one would never take part of it, we need to let God call the man and let God have control, if it is not a real calling time will tell, but I cant agree to this council stuff. Preachers called by God have too many other things to deal with than this nonsense, a man will be known for his works not for the answer he gives to a question or paper someone might want him to write.......!!!!!!:BangHead:

 

[annsni]

I must disagree with this, God does let me repeat this God does call the man to preach, not a council nor a man nor a deacon or a professor at some school but God, and in answering this call the man should be willing to obtain a education if possible by either a school or from fellow pastors and he should preach every chance he gets for a time then come to be ordained, but he should never ever be subject to hours of questions's by anyone, now most men that surrender to preach stay in their home church during training so these people know him and are the best source of type of man he is, not a group of pastors who may never have seen this man in their lives. I dont think God would approve of this type of thing and I for one would never take part of it, we need to let God call the man and let God have control, if it is not a real calling time will tell, but I cant agree to this council stuff. Preachers called by God have too many other things to deal with than this nonsense, a man will be known for his works not for the answer he gives to a question or paper someone might want him to write.......!!!!!!:BangHead:

However, isn't a church body responsible for the person who they allow to lead them? What if some guy comes in and says "God called me to preach at this church." Do you allow it? No.

In my hubby's ordination counsel, which was really a long period of study and meeting with other pastors, the pastors who were there knew my husband and his ministry. None of them were strangers because my husband had been working in the ministry for numerous years before this and knew many pastors in the area. Through this process, the church itself and our "sister" churches (churches in the area who are like-minded and biblically sound) were able to see the ordination candidates in their teaching and doctrine to be sure that they were sound and at the end, they signed the ordination papers and prayed over my husband. I've already posted the picture of the two of us during that prayer time. There were over 20 men standing around us laying hands on us and praying - just as was done in the New Testament churches.

A man cannot just claim to be called by God and go preach. There must be a time of testing before any church would allow a man in to preach or lead the church and we found that time to be during my husband's ordination studies. If a man is called to the ministry, it should be his own church that helps to train him along with like minded Biblically solid churches in the area. And these would be the men that he would already have a relationship with because for certain, a man is not just going to suddenly be a pastor but most likely be working towards that goal and will have met with and learned about the other ministers in his area.

 

[Jim1999]

I am somewhat with you Navyman. I understand where you are at. Things have changed a great deal since I was ordained.

I was still a student and had a student pastorate. I didn't have to write a ten thousand word thesis, a small book and not even a little pamphlet. I signed a doctrinal statement and confirmed my acceptance of that document in public. The attending men did ask a few questions just to make sure I knew the answers.

The local church agreed with the attendees and asked the organization to confirm my ordination. The deacons of the local church and three pastors laid hand on my head and prayed over me.............and I was legally ordained.

I also believe that all the writing and paperwork is a lot of hogwash and unneeded. Surely they didn't do this in New Testament churches...some of them couldn't even write.

Then, anyone can copy a lot of biblical dogma from existing books, put them on paper and call them their own.......which is about all it amounts to.

Better to ask a few personal questions, biblical questions and get on with the task at hand. It shouldn't take more than an hour or two at the most.

Mr. Spurgeon was never ordained by man, but he surely was by God.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Pastor Larry]

I must disagree with this, God does let me repeat this God does call the man to preach, not a council nor a man nor a deacon or a professor at some school but God

But God's call is confirmed by God's church.

...but he should never ever be subject to hours of questions's by anyone

Why not? How else does a church know if a man is doctrinally sound if they don't ask him? How do they know if he fits the biblical qualifications of holding to sound doctrine of they do not inquire?

now most men that surrender to preach stay in their home church during training so these people know him and are the best source of type of man he is, not a group of pastors who may never have seen this man in their lives.

The pastors are not assembled to testify to his character, but to his doctrinal fitness. A church body typically does not have the type of knowledge in it that can question a man concerning his doctrine. The council serves at the pleasure of hte church to make a recommendation to the church.

I dont think God would approve of this type of thing and I for one would never take part of it,[

I think God ordained it (no pun intended) when he said to make sure pastors have sound doctrine.

we need to let God call the man and let God have control,

We are. He controls it through his church.

if it is not a real calling time will tell

How much time will you give a doctrinally unsound man to tell the people he is not fit to serve? By that time, too many have been led astray.

Preachers called by God have too many other things to deal with than this nonsense,

This is one of the things that God calls pastors to do.

a man will be known for his works not for the answer he gives to a question or paper someone might want him to write.......!!!!!!

He will actually be known by both. A great number of decent hard working well meaning people have had heretical doctrine and damned the souls of many. And no one stood up to say "You are doctrinally unfit." If a man can't explain what he believes to a council, how will he ever explain to a church? And why should he be allowed to?

We need to take the call to the pastorate seriously enough to examine a man as to his doctrines and character. To fail to do so is to dishonor the gospel, the pastorate, and the church.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Then, anyone can copy a lot of biblical dogma from existing books, put them on paper and call them their own.......which is about all it amounts to.

This is why questioning by knowledgeable men is needed. Anyone can write a few paragraphs or give a few short answers. But get him off his notes and see what he knows. See if he can defend the trinity, or the gospel of Christ, or the inspiration of the Scriptures.

I can assure you that far more harm is done by doctrinally unsound men in the pulpit than by ordination councils.

 

[Jim1999]

I think things are handled differently in the UK and Canada than in the USA........I could be wrong.

Before a man is invited to pastor a church,,,putting aside the idea of being called etc....the church confides with the secretary of the organization for available men and their qualifications. If the man is still in seminary or Bible College, then the schools are also consulted.
A fair amount is known about the man without him even speaking.

Then comes ordination by the local church.

I was in the military and because the Church of England was the state church at the time, I was ordained by the local Bishop. He alone asked the questions and approved the ordination...first as Deacon and shortly after as a priest.

When I left the military, I thoght it only right to be ordained in a Canadian Baptist Church and went through that process. Not oddly enough, the questions of me included infant baptism, church polity and practice and the order of ministry more than on actual doctrines of theology. They wanted to make sure I was Baptist and not Anglican....Fair dinkum. I was in favour of that. A few questions came straight off the statement of faith, standard in the group I was with, and they were fair questions. I did not have a paper in front of me with the relevant scriptures in writing. I had to know them from my open Bible. I guess some 50 years later it has proved sufficient to establish my fitness for ministry.

Then, we didn't have computers in those days. Some had mimeograph handcrank machines. Some of us even had old bang the keys typewriters, but we all had brains, memories and voices.

Enough said!

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Navymans]

This is why questioning by knowledgeable men is needed. Anyone can write a few paragraphs or give a few short answers. But get him off his notes and see what he knows. See if he can defend the trinity, or the gospel of Christ, or the inspiration of the Scriptures.

I can assure you that far more harm is done by doctrinally unsound men in the pulpit than by ordination councils.

I would hope that any person up for ordiantion would be able to answer these with ease, folks we are not talking about a man being called to preach the Word of God one week and ordaining him the following week, in todays world with all the Schools we have I would hope a man would go for training and knowledge of the Bible befor he became a pastor of a Church, with that said I will remain silent on this subject.:godisgood:

 

[Pastor Larry]

I would hope that any person up for ordiantion would be able to answer these with ease

As would I. But how do we know until we examine them?