I don't want this to get lost in the thread so I will post it again now, as it was a discussion regarding the OP earlier on.
Originally Posted by ReformedBaptist
If regeneration occurs simultaneously with faith, then speaking of order seems odd. I have searched the Scriptures on the matter and the closest I think the Word of God comes to answering our question is that the believing into Christ is the result of being regenerate. I can't imagine anyone savingly believing into Christ who is not regenerate, nor can I imagine someone who is regenerate who is not also believing/trusting into Christ.
I was quickened while I was dead in my trespasses and sins.
RB
They are 'almost' simultaneous and unlike the Reformed belief I do not think it is a 'logical' order at all but a specific order that happens at the same moment in time. I say it is not a 'logical' order but a spelled out specific order based primarily upon the evidence of what I was asking you about regeneration (and all it entails) preceding faith (which is supposedly a part of that list). Let me show you what I am talking about.
You state that being regenerate precedes faith and that in this regenerating man is/has been given:
1. a new nature (old things are passed away behold all things have become new - IOW - you are no longer what you were);
2. the Holy Spirit indwells them;
3. their relationship to God has been reconciled (justified);
4. they have been sanctified unto God;
4. they are now IN Christ (thus alive);
5. and are given faith and repentence to be used for salvation.
This is the position you have declared so far (as far I understand you).
Now here is the problem with what you have stated if all the above are imparted at regeneration (which includes faith) that precedes the excersizing of one's faith.
None of the above, biblically, are imparted to man except 'by faith'.
as I have shown here:
It is 'by faith' we are justified (Rom 3:28)
It is 'by faith' we are sanctified (Acts 26:18,)
It is 'by faith' we are made righteous (Rom 3:22, Rom 4:5)
It is 'by faith' the propitiation (substituationary death) is applied to man (Rom 3:25)
It is 'by faith' we receive (obtain) the indwelling Holy Spirit (Gal 3:14)
It is not before faith is excersized that these are imparted to us (your view of regeneration) but 'after' we have believed.
Therefore if all of the above happened 'at' the regeneration, which includes the giving of faith (thus regen preceding faith), then we have a conflict with scripture which states the exact opposite. I do agree that all you have stated happen 'at' the regeneration (aside from faith). But scripturally if one holds that regeneration entails the above, regeneration can not precede faith for it is by faith all of the above is imparted to man. Then you must conclude (as I see it) that faith precedes regeneration.
In conclusion:
The verses I gave above show (and other verses as well) that unless faith is first excerized there is no new birth which constitutes all of the above; For they are all BY FAITH.
This is why I beleive regeneration IS salvation which is imputed to us 'by faith' and both terms (regeneration and salvation) are synonymos with the phrase - born-again (or the New Birth - you are no more what you were).
