Origin of Evil

For example, in the Old Testament we find examples in which God approved of killings. We also read in the Bible that God the Father was pleased to bruise God the Son, however this certainly was NOT a sin.

Also, remember the Egypian midwives in Exodus pleased God even though they lied to Pharoah and did not obey his command to kill the Hebrew boys. We read, " 15And the king of Egypt spake to the Hebrew midwives,.. When ye do the office of a midwife to the Hebrew women, and see them upon the stools; if it be a son, then ye shall kill him: but if it be a daughter, then she shall live. 17But the midwives feared God, and did not as the king of Egypt commanded them, but saved the men children alive. 8And the king of Egypt called for the midwives, and said unto them, Why have ye done this thing, and have saved the men children alive? 19And the midwives said unto Pharaoh, Because the Hebrew women are not as the Egyptian women; for they are lively, and are delivered ere the midwives come in unto them.20Therefore God dealt well with the midwives" (Exodus 1:15-20)

God did will to permit sin, however this will was not a sin in itself because God's intent in this was not evil. God willed sin to exist in order to manifest the most loving act of history mankind will ever know-God the son willingly leaving heaven to die for the sin of his people on the cross. Without sins existence Christ could not have died to forgive sin. This was after all, the ultimate purpose for Christ coming-"thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins." (Matthew 1:21)

We are saved from what? Saved from sin! People who are not sinners have no need for a savior.

At judgement day, God will condemn sinners to hell thus showing his justice. God also pardons his children because Christ has taken their penalty-this demonstrate a different attribute of God-God's mercy. Notice in both situations God does nothing evil, rather He will simply magnify his attribute of justice to those who die unsaved, or magnifty his mercy attribute to those He chooses to graciously save.

God bless,

Brother Joe

[ February 17, 2005, 12:03 AM: Message edited by: BrotherJoe ]

 

It is the motive behind a behavior that defines whether that behavior is sin, not the behavior itself ( see Matthew 15:17-20, Romans 14:23). Therefore, God willing to permit sin into existence was not a sin. Finally, notice also Satan not God created the first sin as satan was the one who transgressed the law by becoming proudful. Thus, God cannot be considered to be the author of sin since "sin is the transgression of the law"(1 John) ans Satan was the one who actually acted out the transgression.

Brother Joe

 

Very nice input, Brother Joe. Thanks.

 

No. God didn't have to decree evil to know that it would come forth as a result of another action. He was just pleased to create the potential and accept the inevitablity of it via His foreknowledge.

If he decreed it, He would be the author of it, would He not? Surely He relished the opportunity to contrast His magnificent Character with evil, but it was His foreknowledge that allowed Him to create the opportunity for evil, and not be the author of it. Why is it so hard for creatures of finite intelligence to comprehend the omniscience and the unlimited foreknowledge of God Almighty?

You must be one of my Calvinist brothers.

Of course we would need His grace, even without sin. How could you possibly suggest otherwise? How could we exist, other than in Gehenna, independently of Him? And why, for even a moment, would we want to?

Would we be able to recognize His mercy and grace? For crying out loud, brother, we can recognize both of those attributes NOW, even in this fallen, wretched state. How much more will we recognize any attribute of our Creator once our sin is removed? ..... "and then we shall be like Him .... for we shall see Him as He is."

Again, correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem 'bound', in a systemic, man-made prison, like many of my dear Calvinist brethren (God bless them all - most of them are better Christians than I'll ever be).

[ February 17, 2005, 12:40 AM: Message edited by: IveyLeaguer ]

 

I would have to really disagree with the idea that God decreed sin in order to show some kind of contrast - this sounds very dualistic. God, because of his holiness, could never desire anything evil nor desire sin, nor need sin in order to manifest his character. Naturally, God does not need anything since he is perfect and complete.

Yoda's philosophy is mainly a mixture of Zen Buddhism and occultism, the latter being very dualistic.

 

I agree. And isn't "the transgression of the law" a lack of obedience to God's commands? If I obey, I do not transgress.

The original supposition was that God creates evil. I assumed that the point of the OP was that God creates (is the originator of) sin (although the passage in question was referring to calamity, not sin IMO).

God is not the originator of sin. It is a mistake to think so. Sin is a lack that does not require a creative act (cf. 1Jn 3:4), just as darkness is a lack that did not require a creative act (cf. Genesis 1).

 

Using the above premise then, could we say that God created the potential for darkness when He created the heavens and the earth, and that He created the potential for evil when He created free will?

 

I think Keith's point about getting a clearer definition of evil is key here. What is "evil"? If it is the same as "sin"... then isn't it an action, rather than a thing?

We tend to speak of evil as a person or a thing that has to be "created". I think that confuses the issue.

How can someone create an action - unless he's the person doing the action? God didn't create evil - since God can't do evil. Man first did an evil thing when he disobeyed God. Mankind does evil when they disobey God now.

 

IveyLeaguer, I think that is getting close to my thoughts on the matter. Kind of hard to pin down an esoteric thought such as this.

But...did darkness exist prior to God's creating light? Perhaps the light/dark analogy falls apart at a certain level because disobedience could not exist prior to God's commandment (which was a requirement to obey).

[offtopic] It has probably been discussed in the science forum, but what was the light that was divided from the darkness to create the first evening and morning when the heavenlies were still uncreated (no Sun, Moon, Stars)? [/offtopic]

Glory Bound, I suppose that is what I was thinking as well. God certainly created mankind with the capacity for emotions - but is God the creator of the actual emotions. Saying God created "evil" is like saying God created anger, or hate, or love, or discouragement, or laughter. God created mankind with all of these capacities. His creation was very good. Did God create blindness? It exists today. I don't think we can simply say that God created everything therefore God created sin, blindness, anger, etc. The creation was very good, but had the capacity to degrade. That capacity to degrade was realized because of sin. Without sin I would postulate that the capacity would never have been realized and therefore creation would not have degraded.

I would also submit that sinful attitudes (which often lead to actions) are a perversion of the good capacities that God created within mankind. Now, any thoughts on this that might make me need to retract this statement later. Haven't really thought through all the ramifications yet.