Origin of the Waldenses

[rsr]

Newton was not by any stretch of the imagination a historian; the quotes I've see about Baptists I have been unable to find outside of Landmark sites.

His work on physics, calculus and optics was truly groundbreaking; he also was (as Mioque said) an alchemist and kabbalahist.

Milton was a polemicist in the service of Cromwell's government; he was no historian.

As to Edwards, I can't say, though I don't remember him being thought of as a historian.

 

[Major B]

Originally posted by mioque:
"Newton was probably one of the greatest historians who ever lived."
''
Sir Isaac Newton? The gravity guy? He spend most of his time studying alchemy. He was a crackpot who had one brilliant moment that revolutionized physics and didn't even seem to realize it himself.

This "crackpot" had more than one brilliant moment--he helped invent Calculus, among other things!

 

[Squire Robertsson]

One party to the case is trying to prove a negative.
It is trying to prove there is no link to the First Century.

The finding for the other side (which is trying to prove a link with the First Century) is not proven due to a dearth of reliable evidence. Please note: I wrote reliable evidence. There is evidence to be presented for the claim. But there are reasonable objections to that evidence which have not been answered.

 

[mioque]

"he helped invent Calculus, among other things! "
''

You are talking to a person who can't even comprehend the basics of that field.
To be honest I'm aware of the fact that Newton had a distuingished career as both a scientist and a civil servant. That doesn't change the fact that he truly was something of a crackpot, who spend most of his life seriously studying something that in those days already was considered a completely outdated pseudoscience.

 

[Major B]

Originally posted by mioque:
"he helped invent Calculus, among other things! "
''

You are talking to a person who can't even comprehend the basics of that field.

He also wrote commentaries on Revelation and Daniel...Left Behind, circa 17th century England...

As for Calculus,

-Limits teach you that you can only go so far without falling off the chart.

-Derivatives teach you that slopes change continuously--ups and downs, you know.

-Integrals teach you that there is an easier way to measure area, volume, and to write computer games.

-Series formulas teach you that there is more than one way to count fast...

 

[dean198]

Sorry dean198 not intended as a swipe in your direction.

Thanks, I appreciate the clarification

"Your explanation is not very satisfying personally."
''
That's because you are looking at it through the eyes of a member of modern Western civilization,

... in the case of the Waldenses we have the Roman Catholic sources. I don't mean the hostile ones. I mean the positive ones. There is documentation that proves that in 1179 the Waldenses were recognized as an official papally approved movement within the RCC (with certain restrictions, most importantly they had no license to preach, when they continued doing that it led to the breakdown of relations in 1183).

I really need to finish Faber and Morland and others, as well as the modern writers, but yes I think it is agreed that Waldo's group was within the Roman church, at least for a time.

Have you ever read Faber, Allix, Jones, Morland et al on the Waldenses? maybe you should.....I certainly don't think they were modern day Baptists who can trace themselves to the apostles....but maybe these writers are right in asserting that many took refuge under the more independently minded bishops of Milan and Turin. Enough for now.
Dean

 

[dean198]

"Newton was probably one of the greatest historians who ever lived."
''
Sir Isaac Newton? The gravity guy? He spend most of his time studying alchemy. He was a crackpot who had one brilliant moment that revolutionized physics and didn't even seem to realize it himself. To be honest can't remember ever hearing before now that Newton was a great historian.

"What about the the chronicle of the abbey of Corbie?"
''
Know very little of it. Not currently in a position to study it's contents. Only mentions of it's contents concerning the Waldenses I've found on the internet were on the sort of sites I've learned not to trust.

I think you are all being abit unfair to Newton. He was an absolute genius, coming up not only with calculus but also many of the laws of physics. Who else worked out that if you go fast enough you can 'fall' continuously around the earth? Alchemy is now a fact...we can convert elements into gold....it just costs more to remove protons then the gold is worth.

As a historian Newton was one of the first, if not the first, to use astonomical events like meteors and eclipses to date ancient events. His work on Daniel and Revelation is excellent....a classic historicist work, and not at all comparable to the dispensational fiction of Tim LaHaye. He had a good knowledge of the ancient languages, and in his 'Chronology of Ancient Kingdoms Amended' he collapsed the chronology of Egypt and revised the chronology of the ancient world in a way which historians and archaeologists are only now beginning to see (Peter James, David Rohl, Immanuel Velikovsky, Donovon Courville etc). In my opinion, he was probably the biggest genius ever to have lived.

Dean

 

[mioque]

"He also wrote commentaries on Revelation and Daniel...Left Behind, circa 17th century England..."
''
Where they intended for publication during his lifetime?
If not I suspect they will be rather heretical considering what I remember of his theological views.

 

[mioque]

Dean
Peter James, David Rohl, Immanuel Velikovsky, Donovon Courville
I don't know anything about the first and last guy on that list, but the 2 in the middle are charlatans especially Velikovsky.

 

[dean198]

"He also wrote commentaries on Revelation and Daniel...Left Behind, circa 17th century England..."
''
Where they intended for publication during his lifetime?
If not I suspect they will be rather heretical considering what I remember of his theological views.

His commentary are still available through Amazon....and it is excellent. No heresy or anything like that. Newton rejected some of the philosophical language which has become attached to the trinity doctrine, but not the doctrine itself.

Dean

 

[dean198]

Here is a good link on Newton entitled Was Newton An Arian?

www.sfu.ca/~poitras/Arian_newton.pdf

 

[dean198]

Dean
Peter James, David Rohl, Immanuel Velikovsky, Donovon Courville
I don't know anything about the first and last guy on that list, but the 2 in the middle are charlatans especially Velikovsky.

Velikovsky was abit of a rogue, but it is difficult to argue with his critiques of conventional chronology. Courville independently (and brilliantly) tore apart the whole conventional chronology. His book (sadly out of print) is excellent, and I am grateful to have a copy. Rohl has been criticised, but his work has also been praised by some archaeologists. The BBC did a series with Rohl six or seven years ago, which I watched on British TV.

Michael Sanders' site:
http://www.biblemysteries.com/

Good article:
http://www.knowledge.co.uk/sis/ancient.htm

Tools to open Scripture:
http://www.rianda.com.au/chron.html

Centuries of Darkness by Peter James - Book Reviews
http://www.centuries.co.uk/reviews.htm

David Rohl Website:
http://www.nunki.net/

Velikovsky:
www.varchive.org