Original Sin

[ntchristian]

Another discussion worth having is the difference in the definition of original sin between the Western and Eastern church. In the West, it is taught that all humans somehow "sinned with Adam". This view is based on Augustine's view of original sin and guilt and an incorrect interpretation of scripture, again because of a Western mindset about God and man. This is not held in the East.

See this article, and especially read the part about "Eastern Christianity" which highlights the differences with all of the Western church:

Original sin - Wikipedia

 

[JonC]

I would say Adam is a prototype of natural man. You could substitute any of us in Adam's place and the result would be the same.

 

[agedman]

The difficulty (imo) that causes many to find fault with one scheme of total inability (depravity) in comparison to a continuum of falling into deeper depravity comes down to the human will and self determination.

Inevitably, those who reject total depravity and total inability also consider humankind does have some ability to express interest in at least appeasing god. This is verified as every culture has some form of religious appeasement. So, the thinking follows that humankind may express self determination (will) in the area of the offer of salvation.

I just do not find that view totally compatible with the presentation of Scripture.

 

[Salty]

We are born with a sinful nature - if you want to call that original sin......

 

[Marooncat79]

Another discussion worth having is the difference in the definition of original sin between the Western and Eastern church. In the West, it is taught that all humans somehow "sinned with Adam". This view is based on Augustine's view of original sin and guilt and an incorrect interpretation of scripture, again because of a Western mindset about God and man. This is not held in the East.

See this article, and especially read the part about "Eastern Christianity" which highlights the differences with all of the Western church:

Original sin - Wikipedia

You sure seem to be an Apologist for the EOC

 

[ntchristian]

You sure seem to be an Apologist for the EOC

I used to be EOC but no longer, the reason being that I find some of their doctrines incompatible with scripture and the earliest churches. However, I do find the EOC, with their Eastern mindset, closer to scripture and the early church than the RCC and Protestantism, on many important theological issues.

 

[Marooncat79]

I used to be EOC but no longer, the reason being that I find some of their doctrines incompatible with scripture and the earliest churches. However, I do find the EOC, with their Eastern mindset, closer to scripture and the early church than the RCC and Protestantism, on many important theological issues.

Which ones?

 

[ntchristian]

Which ones?

Atonement, original sin, God's character, immersion baptism -- to name a few.

 

[Marooncat79]

Interesting

the mods don’t care, why should I right?

not my site

just curious, what do you disagree about?

 

[Marooncat79]

Especially Gods character

 

[JonC]

The difficulty (imo) that causes many to find fault with one scheme of total inability (depravity) in comparison to a continuum of falling into deeper depravity comes down to the human will and self determination.

Very good point (something I have not considered before). Does the doctrine of "total depravity" allow for a deeper depravity? Scripture at least hints at a deeper state of depravity that accompanies willing disobedience.

 

[Marooncat79]

Yes it does

 

[JonC]

Yes it does

More than totally depraved?

 

[Marooncat79]

Think of those who grow up to commit murder

the rejection of God results in potentially no bounds. Murder, sexual assault etc

 

[Marooncat79]

TD does not mean we are all as bad as we can be. It just means that all areas of our lives have been scarred or tainted by sin

you would disapprove this, but even our will has been subjected to sin

 

[JonC]

TD does not mean we are all as bad as we can be. It just means that all areas of our lives have been scarred or tainted by sin

you would disapprove this, but even our will has been subjected to sin

So mildly depraved....scared just enough not to merit salvation.

(actually, I don't have a problem with total depravity, and I have many times said our will is subjected to sin).

I'm a reformed Calvinist (I'm good with everything but the Theory upon which it is founded, which means I have a lot in common but get there via differently).

 

[Marooncat79]

Even Hitler seemed to enjoy the company of young lads and there was no seemingly sinister motive

 

[JonC]

Even Hitler seemed to enjoy the company of young lads and there was no seemingly sinister motive

??

 

[Revmitchell]

Another discussion worth having is the difference in the definition of original sin between the Western and Eastern church. In the West, it is taught that all humans somehow "sinned with Adam". This view is based on Augustine's view of original sin and guilt and an incorrect interpretation of scripture, again because of a Western mindset about God and man. This is not held in the East.

See this article, and especially read the part about "Eastern Christianity" which highlights the differences with all of the Western church:

Original sin - Wikipedia

everytime you show up here with a new username you beat the same drums. Everytime

 

[ntchristian]

everytime you show up here with a new username you beat the same drums. Everytime

The mods/admins dispute your false accusations. Why you attack me and lie about me is the question that needs to be answered. Lying is not a fruit of the Spirit, not God's Spirit anyway.