Osama bin Laden's punishement

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dr. Bob Griffin:
Daniel - You missed the point. Individuals do not have the right to hate and kill. Governments are given that right. Not my thoughts. God's.

And think about the Roman Empire - cruel, barbarous, aggressor nation, slavery, evil - but not one word of NT criticism.

Bad government is better than no government. Obeying government OR facing the legal (though often wrong) consequences of disobeying is our choice.

Not trying to justify America. Don't have to. Doesn't matter if every Afghani only made blankets and never raised a finger against us. If our government says "go", I go. GOD gave government that right!

And God even used "evil" governments and armies as His weapon (Assyria over Israel, Babylon over Judah). God's plan is not thwarted.

(Lt.jg during Nam)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dr. Bob, I for one appreciate your post. You put into words exactly what I have been unable to verbally explain so clearly. THere are clear definitions between ourselves and how we handle personal attacks and our government. I don't think that we are participating in sin if we support our government and do what is asked of us by it. Where it becomes sin is when we internalize and make it a "personal" issue, when we derive a sinful pleasure for inflicting pain. Many may disagree and that's ok, I'm not giving a double standard here because just as I believe WE as Americans should do what our government tells us to do in term of it's protection, The same goes for other countries. I believe that if there be any true christians who are put in the position of having to obey their government in war against Us...well, there again, I wouldn't be able to accuse them of sin.

What was really shocking to me was the article that someone on another thread I believe posted that spoke of how much aid we have offered Afghanistan just in 2001 alone! Like $125 million dollars in aid.

And Daniel, in my heart I truly do not believe that what these monsters did to us on Tuesday had ANYTHING to do with them protecting their government. I don't think they did what they did because they felt they were in eminent danger from us. They waged this war, by their choice, thank goodness that the United States at least has the courage to make known what our position is. When we decide to strike back, there will be no mistaking what our purpose is, and I certainly don't believe that we will be so cowardly as to pretend we haven't done a thing!

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Daniel Davidson:

And how likely are you to get called up by the Navy? My career is the Navy. I love the Navy. If we go to war, the things I build will be used to kill, and I hope they work flawlessly. If any of you keyboard war heroes or self proclaimed "real men" want to help kill our country's enemies just march yourself down to the local recruiter.
Daniel<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh yeah, and by the way, I don't think you have been on the board too long so maybe you just arent aware of this but the men that have put posts up saying that they were ready, the majority of them are vets. So I find that comment a little offensive for their sakes. It doesn't seem like you made that comment to edify or encourage, seems like you said it to satisfy your own flesh. Only you and God know where your heart was on that, I'm aware of this, I'm just letting you know how it looks on this side.

 

"Not trying to justify America. Don't have to. Doesn't matter if every Afghani only made blankets and never raised a finger against us. If our government says "go", I go. GOD gave government that right!"

Yet what do we do when the "government" tells us to do things that are not biblically based? Such as china's government and their three self patriotic movement?

Until Next Post, Adam

 

Daniel,

Your smug, self-righteousness is forgiven.

John Wells, MSgt, USAF (Retired)
Gulf War Veteran

 

I think that people who have seen war as well as people that are directly effected by this are going to have stronger feelings than others. Myself, I think it's a crying same that the younger men of this nation aren't standing in line to sign up to do what I think is every able body mans duty. Serve and protect this country. If my husband, and I pray to God this doesn't happen, but if he were to lose his life durning this in my mind he would be a hero. A hero to my kids, to myself, and the rest of the Nation. I think some of the younger men on the board need to have alittle more understanding as to how those who have been through it feel. BUT! Those are just my thoughts on it.
Paula

 

I'm not allowed to stand in line. Already tried but since I'm on meds I can't sign up.

'til next post, Adam

 

Adam, if you have tried, hats off to you. But to stand in the face of those that KNOW it's their duty and are able and tell them they shouldn't do it because the bibles says not to. I think you're dead wrong. Proven in fact that the bible DOES say to defend what is yours. Did not Joshua march around the walls for days, when they came down do you think people weren't killed? God gave that land to them, much as he has given America to us. JUST as he has given the men of this nation wives and children, are you telling me that God doesn't want them defended? I think not.
Paula

 

The feminization of American men has made me sick. God MADE men to feel those feelings. To be MAD when someone hurts what is near and dear to them. I think we need to get back to the day and age when men were allowed to be MEN. (even though they can be a pain every now and then. )When men didn't cower down and be beat to death with all this "express your feelings" crud.

Paula

[ September 15, 2001: Message edited by: livin'intheword ]

 

Adam, if you have tried, hats off to you. But to stand in the face of those that KNOW it's their duty and are able and tell them they shouldn't do it because the bibles says not to. I think you're dead wrong"

And uhhh when did I say this? Never. Didn't even allude to it at all. How could have I, I'm all for defending America and always have been. So please be careful with your angry words.

Until Next Post, Adam

 

Adam, I am not in any way, shape or form mad. Really. But, I do need to say sorry. I wasn't paying attention to my writing skills. I was saying hats off to you, and shame on those who haven't done the same.

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dr. Bob Griffin:
Daniel - You missed the point. Individuals do not have the right to hate and kill. Governments are given that right. Not my thoughts. God's.

And think about the Roman Empire - cruel, barbarous, aggressor nation, slavery, evil - but not one word of NT criticism.

Bad government is better than no government. Obeying government OR facing the legal (though often wrong) consequences of disobeying is our choice.

Not trying to justify America. Don't have to. Doesn't matter if every Afghani only made blankets and never raised a finger against us. If our government says "go", I go. GOD gave government that right!


<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dr. Bob,

I'm on your side of the fence as far as this thread goes, but must disagree with the logic of this particular argument.

Much of the NT was written from prison. That wasn't because Godly men were mindless lapdogs for a corrupt government.

And, using your logic the guys who ran the gas chambers and were "just following orders" were not far off the mark.

Having said that, I pray that God will protect and strengthen our forces and that they will bring a swift and quite violent end to Bin Laden and every single one of his protectors and helpers, as well any other culpable groups.

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pennsylvania Jim: Having said that, I pray that God will protect and strengthen our forces and that they will bring a swift and quite violent end to Bin Laden and every single one of his protectors and helpers, as well any other culpable groups. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Amen Jim. They raise thier kids to believe in the same things they do. If we don't put an end to it now, it'll be their kids killing my kids with more attacks.

Paula

[ September 15, 2001: Message edited by: B. J. Halo ]

 

LoL Dr. B!

Anyway, could this ongoing conflict be linked to Ishmael & Isaac? Perhaps Ishmael's people (the Bin Ladens of this world and his cronies) feel they want justice because Isaac was the second son of Abraham, not the first, and therefore the covenant should have been established with Ishmael...perhaps the hatred has been passed on from generation to generation. ????? Could be huh?

Kathy
&lt;&gt;&lt;

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pennsylvania Jim:


Dr. Bob,

I'm on your side of the fence as far as this thread goes, but must disagree with the logic of this particular argument.

Much of the NT was written from prison. That wasn't because Godly men were mindless lapdogs for a corrupt government.

And, using your logic the guys who ran the gas chambers and were "just following orders" were not far off the mark.

Having said that, I pray that God will protect and strengthen our forces and that they will bring a swift and quite violent end to Bin Laden and every single one of his protectors and helpers, as well any other culpable groups.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would agree there P.Jim. I know that if it was our government saying "Hey, it's been a slow week, let's go bomb somebody and see what we can stir up" in that instance I could not support that! I don't think the bible calls us to either. Yes, we should stand up with our government to PROTECT our nation, but that wouldn't include striking against someone that didn't propose a threat in the first place...that really wouldn't be protecting. Fortunatly, we aren't having to face that right now because these people are a threat! I know many people have commented on the innocent lives that will be lost in the process in afghanistan, and that's probably true, but didn't the same thing happen in biblical times? I can't quote any scripture, I'll have to take the time to look up exact references but I'm pretty sure it talks about how God wiped out entire nations due to the sin. It doesn't tell you each individual that was killed in the process, but I'm sure that there had to be some that were innocent. Maybe not, but I myself will not think negativly of our forces if it comes down to us having to totally wipe afghanistan off the map. They have had the chance to stop this from happening. They've been given the choice, and they continue to choose their support of this monster so, looks like consequence time is coming.
(btw, only the top part of my message was directly related to your post Pastor Jim, just stating that I agreed about having a different reason for my support! )

 

(taken from an email list)

Killing this dude will only create a martyr. Holding him prisoner will inspire his comrades to take hostages and demand his release.

Therefore, we do neither.

Let the SAS, Seals or whatever, covertly capture him, fly him to an undisclosed hospital and have surgeons quickly perform a complete sex change operation. Then we return 'her' to Afghanistan to live as a
woman under the Taliban.

 

Catch him and force feed him pork then let him crawl to mecca.