OT Slaughters

[steaver]

Greetings brothers and sisters!

I recently came up against an unbeliever who struggles to believe because of the way God dealt with people groups in the OT. Like ordering the Israelites to take a city and kill them all, women and children as well. In their mind this is murder and they say God is a murdering God. It is difficult to debate with an unbeliever and attempt to make any sense with them on these issues for the simple fact that they are viewing from an unbelieving position to begin with, so what have you guys found or think is the best way to answer these folks on this issue?

PLEASE! DO NOT MAKE THIS AN ELECTION DEBATE! Even believers find God's dealings in the OT difficult to understand.

Blessings!

 

[Scarlett O.]

*sigh* - I have prayed for this person after reading your post. It's so humanistic to want God to meet our demands in order for us to consider him worthy of worship. And it's so sad that people push God away thinking they know him and they don't.

In Genesis, God told Abraham the whole long story about his children, grandchildren, and descendants - the story that Abraham would never live to see. God told Abraham that his people would be enslaved in Egypt for a long time and that he would eventually lead them back to the Promised Land, but only after the inhabitants who lived there had their sinful ways come to its limitations.

I see it like this. God gave those people hundreds of years to repent and a few did. God was patient. The New Testament says that God is patient because he doesn't want to see anyone perish. The book of Ezekiel says three times that God does not take pleasure in the destruction of the wicked.

And God DID spare some of those people along the way.

But- as the Bible predicted, the sins of those people came to its limit. God spared whom he spared for their moralities sake - such as the young women somewhere in Numbers who were of a moral nature. He spared Rahab and more.

I don't see this as God wantonly killing people.

After an in-depth [and I MEAN in-depth] study of Genesis through Ruth over the passed year and teaching it to others, I see all of this as God giving pagans an opportunity to repent. Most did not. As God said, their sins came to the point that they could not get any worse.

Then judgment came on those who remained in defiance against God.

If your friend could actually study Genesis through Ruth and really get into it, he would see this position in a whole new light.

He would see a patient and compassionate God who stays his wrath until it cannot be stayed anymore.

He is a God of wrath because he is holy. He is a God of patience and compassion because he is holy.

I pray that your friend understand the holiness of God and why God behaves perfectly.

 

[steaver]

*sigh* - I have prayed for this person after reading your post. It's so humanistic to want God to meet our demands in order for us to consider him worthy of worship. And it's so sad that people push God away thinking they know him and they don't.

In Genesis, God told Abraham the whole long story about his children, grandchildren, and descendants - the story that Abraham would never live to see. God told Abraham that his people would be enslaved in Egypt for a long time and that he would eventually lead them back to the Promised Land, but only after the inhabitants who lived there had their sinful ways come to its limitations.

I see it like this. God gave those people hundreds of years to repent and a few did. God was patient. The New Testament says that God is patient because he doesn't want to see anyone perish. The book of Ezekiel says three times that God does not take pleasure in the destruction of the wicked.

And God DID spare some of those people along the way.

But- as the Bible predicted, the sins of those people came to its limit. God spared whom he spared for their moralities sake - such as the young women somewhere in Numbers who were of a moral nature. He spared Rahab and more.

I don't see this as God wantonly killing people.

After an in-depth [and I MEAN in-depth] study of Genesis through Ruth over the passed year and teaching it to others, I see all of this as God giving pagans an opportunity to repent. Most did not. As God said, their sins came to the point that they could not get any worse.

Then judgment came on those who remained in defiance against God.

If your friend could actually study Genesis through Ruth and really get into it, he would see this position in a whole new light.

He would see a patient and compassionate God who stays his wrath until it cannot be stayed anymore.

He is a God of wrath because he is holy. He is a God of patience and compassion because he is holy.

I pray that your friend understand the holiness of God and why God behaves perfectly.

Thank you for the prayers Scarlett! Blessings!

 

[utilyan]

Greetings brothers and sisters!

I recently came up against an unbeliever who struggles to believe because of the way God dealt with people groups in the OT. Like ordering the Israelites to take a city and kill them all, women and children as well. In their mind this is murder and they say God is a murdering God. It is difficult to debate with an unbeliever and attempt to make any sense with them on these issues for the simple fact that they are viewing from an unbelieving position to begin with, so what have you guys found or think is the best way to answer these folks on this issue?

PLEASE! DO NOT MAKE THIS AN ELECTION DEBATE! Even believers find God's dealings in the OT difficult to understand.

Blessings!

Education. God teaches every single human being personally. Violence is contrary to God's nature. God pushes mankind's righteousness and constantly tests his faith.

Example when God's chosen people decided to make a Golden Calf, God made up his mind to destroy them, Now how could that not be a good idea.....he is God after all. Moses pleads with God and he spares them.

We see with Abraham he pleads on behalf of Sodom and Gomorrah.

Jesus Christ himself called a woman a dog and said he wasn't sent to help her. That is God almighty. How do you argue against that? Yet she pleads with Jesus. Jesus says she has great faith. After she had been refused 3 times. Keep in mind she is doing this on behalf of her daughter and they are pagans.


Trusting God, faith in God is a real deal. Its really believing God is so GOOD his goodness is holy rather then well i'm just so holy any evil i do is "good".

Holiness is just God's shadow. God is the ultimate hero in everyone's life.

God's principle can't be separated from the person. The bible even says God is Love. None say God is Wrath.

Philippians 2

3Do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind regard one another as more important than yourselves; 4do not merely look out for your own personal interests, but also for the interests of others. 5Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,


Even Jesus didn't consider his being GOD as some advantage. The right thing really is and only is the right thing. That is the attitude of perfect goodness. Its real easy to do the right thing when everyone has your back. It takes real faith to stand up when against all odds.

 

[TCassidy]

3 Points.

#1. They are part of God's creation and thus He can do as He pleases with them.

#2. They were sinners in open rebellion against the God of all creation by worshiping idols. The wages of sin is death.

3#. The only place a question could arise is the children. Why would God kill the children who were not (yet) idolaters and were innocent of the sins of their parents? Simple. God is a God of Mercy. Rather than allowing these children to grow up and become like their parents, sinners, idolaters, and worthy of death, God, in His Mercy, brought them to Himself where they could be loved, cherished, nurtured in the things of the LORD.

 

[HankD]

What does he do with Noah's flood?

The entire inhabited earth apart from Noah and family - men, women and children were all destroyed.

Genesis 6
12 And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.
13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.

Luke 17:27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.

We are His creation to do with what He pleases.
He gives opportunity of repentance before His wrath comes.

His grace is why there is still a human race at all:

Genesis 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

HankD

 

[steaver]

3#. The only place a question could arise is the children. Why would God kill the children who were not (yet) idolaters and were innocent of the sins of their parents? Simple. God is a God of Mercy. Rather than allowing these children to grow up and become like their parents, sinners, idolaters, and worthy of death, God, in His Mercy, brought them to Himself where they could be loved, cherished, nurtured in the things of the LORD.

That is one way to rationalize it, but why didn't God just tell us that these children obtained grace? He kinda left us having to speculate. Yes, I know what David said about his child, however, that still does not guarantee all young children who die obtain grace. Would like to think so, but for some reason God withheld that much information from us. I can't say that they do, nor can I say that they do not.