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Other Christian Denominations and King James Only

rlvaughn

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KJV-only author David Daniels tries to claim that KJV-only doctrine comes from the 1646 Westminster Confession of Faith, but he seems to be reading his own KJV-only assumptions into it (51 Reasons for King James, pp. 150-155). Because after mention of the original tongues are to be translated into the vulgar language of every nation, it mentions Scriptures and so David Daniels asserts "that these translations are called scriptures" so he assumes that means that they were saying that the translations are given by inspiration of God.
I haven't looked at the Westminster Confession in awhile, so looked back over it. Chapter II, No. VIII seems to be the most relevant section.
VIII. The Old Testament in Hebrew (which was the native language of the people of God of old), and the New Testament in Greek (which, at the time of the writing of it was most generally known to the nations), being immediately inspired by God, and, by His singular care and providence kept pure in all ages, are therefore authentical;(r) so as, in all controversies of religion, the Church is finally to appeal unto them.(s) But, because these original tongues are not known to all the people of God, who have right unto, and interest in the Scriptures, and are commanded, in the fear of God, to read and search them,(t) therefore they are to be translated into the vulgar language of every nation unto which they come,(u) that the Word of God dwelling plentifully in all, they may worship Him in an acceptable manner;(w) and, through patience and comfort of the Scriptures, may have hope.(x)

(r) Matt. 5:18.
(s) Isa. 8:20; Acts 15:15; John 5:39, 46.
(t) John 5:39.
(u) I Cor. 14:6, 9, 11, 12, 24, 27, 28.
(w) Col. 3:16.
(x) Rom. 15:4.
I don't believe that can be deduced from this section of the Confession. One would need to find writings of those who compiled this confession of faith that make that claim to establish a KJVO position from this. That they call a translation the Scriptures does not correlate to them meaning the translations are inspired. They do seem to speak of an ecclesiastical text that has been preserved., though that is open to interpretation as well. Again, I think we would have to investigate the writings of the compilers to see what they meant about that.
 

Logos1560

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I have trouble viewing groups which add to the sacred Scriptures (e.g. Latter-Day Saints/The Book of Mormon; Christian Science/Science and Health with Key to the Scriptures) as being "King James Only" in any way we would normally think of that term.

Bruce McConkie wrote: "The King James Version has been and remains the official version of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Mormon Doctrine, p. 423). In a Mormon history of the Bible, Read acknowledged that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints “continues to hold to use of the King James Version” (How We Got the Bible, p. 92). Mormon J. Reuben Clark, Jr. wrote: “The Inspired Version of the Prophet Joseph Smith fully supports, in all essential matters of the New Testament, the King James Version, which Version has thus been the accepted Bible text for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints from the Prophet’s time on down” (Why the KJV, p. 3). Reuben Clark maintained that “the great bulk of our people know and use only the Authorized Version,“ and he added: “The Authorized Version is to most of us The Bible, and we would feel we had been disloyal to the record of God’s dealing with men if we were to use any other text” (p. 60). The first edition of Reuben Clark's book Why the King James Version was published in 1956.

Stephen L. Richards also noted that Mormons "accept the King James Version as the standard translation" (About Mormonism, p. 10). This group has even published their own edition of the King James Version "with Explanatory Notes and Cross References to the Standard Works of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Decker, Massive Mormon Scripture Mess, pp. 4-5). The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints has also published editions of the KJV bound together with the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and Pearl of Great Price. These editions are sometimes called by Mormons the “Quad Scriptures.“

Could KJV-onlyism be said to add to the Scriptures? KJV-only advocates often seem to add ideas to verses that the verses do not state. The New Testament in Greek does not teach modern, non-scriptural KJV-only doctrine so could KJV-only doctrine in one sense be considered something added to the Bible? Does KJV-only doctrine attempt to add traditions of men to the Bible?
 

rlvaughn

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No surprise that Mormons would continue to use the Bible that was in vogue at the time Joseph Smith started his church, the Bible he referred to, and the Bible after which he styled his Book of Mormon. After all, they think he was a prophet of the latter days. It seems to me that they are sort of stuck with it, all of which is no fault of the King James Version itself.
Could KJV-onlyism be said to add to the Scriptures? KJV-only advocates often seem to add ideas to verses that the verses do not state. The New Testament in Greek does not teach modern, non-scriptural KJV-only doctrine so could KJV-only doctrine in one sense be considered something added to the Bible? Does KJV-only doctrine attempt to add traditions of men to the Bible?
It can just as easily be said that "the New Testament in Greek does not teach" some doctrines taught by non-KJV and anti-KJV users.
 

rlvaughn

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The first edition of Reuben Clark's book Why the King James Version was published in 1956.
Now that is interesting. While I do not care specifically what the Latter-Day Saints think about the Bible, the time when it was written proceeds most of what has been written on “Why the King James Version.” So I could see it being interesting from that aspect.
 

rlvaughn

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In a previous post, Logos1560 suggested that I was trying to define KJV-only too broadly. I initially posted links to several denominations who use the KJV exclusively, or who make an even more exclusive claim about the King James Version of the Bible. While I was clear that I was using the term broadly (as in the BB categorizations), his animadversions might seem to imply that none of the denominations in the list are “KJVO”.
The accurate term KJV-only is used by Bible believers to define and describe any view that accepts or makes some type of exclusive claims for only one English Bible translation—the KJV. Holders of a KJV-only view would in effect attempt to suggest, assume, or claim that the KJV is the word of God in English in some different sense than any other English translation is the word of God in English...What is soundly considered to constitute a KJV-only view would concern a person’s beliefs, opinions, and claims concerning the KJV (his exclusive only claims for it)...KJV-only defines and describes any person who makes any absolute exclusive only claim for one English translation—the KJV. Any view that suggests or implies perfection, inerrancy, or inspiration for the KJV and any view that supposes or assumes that its translating is the word of God in a different sense (equivocally) than any other English Bible could accurately be described as KJV-only.
Considering Logos’s definition, are not these KJVO statements? (All the following quotes are from different groups in the OP.)
“Two great deceptions have now overtaken mankind. The first is the unproved Theory of Evolution and the second is the Counterfeit Evolving Bibles that are currently flooding the market. Both cast doubt on the accuracy of the Real Word of God, the King James Bible.”
“We read only from the King James Version Holy Bible, any other Bible is incorrect and is not as according to the Word of God, which was made by men being inspired by the Spirit of God, to write these things as a guide, evidence to who he is and how to live Holy in God.”
“We wholeheartedly endorse the use of the Authorized Version (King James Version) of the Bible as the final authority in our English-speaking churches and schools.”
“We believe that the authorized King James Version of the Bible is the true guide with nothing added to it or taken away.”
“The original autographs were inspired. The King James Bible is those same autographs preserved. Why did God inspire a perfect original if he didn’t plan on preserving it?”
“We believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and that He was born of the virgin Mary and the scriptures of the Old and New Testament are the inspired Word of God, and that the New Testament is our rule of faith and practice. The King James Bible is the only version to be read in our churches. Other versions are of no more value than a commentary on the scriptures.”
 

SGO

Well-Known Member
I pastor a fundamental Baptist Church in Stoke-on-Trent, Staffordshire. We have no desire to be affiliated with the Baptist Union as it is ecumenical in its outlook and often liberal in its positions. We are premillennial dispensational, use the Authorised Version, and are conservative in our music styles. If you want to know more see:

www.miltonbaptistchurch.co.uk

Fundamentalism in the UK

Ok sorry it's Baptist.
 

Salty

20,000 Posts Club
Administrator
I pastor a fundamental Baptist Church in Stoke-on-Trent, Staffordshire. We have no desire to be affiliated with the Baptist Union as it is ecumenical in its outlook and often liberal in its positions. We are premillennial dispensational, use the Authorised Version, and are conservative in our music styles. If you want to know more see:

www.miltonbaptistchurch.co.uk

Fundamentalism in the UK

.

SGO are you saying that you are the pastor of Milton Baptist?
If so, than why does your profile say "Non-Baptist Christian"?

Also, if you are in the UK - you might be interested in this list of IFB churches in Germany - most consist of USA military personel
Germany Independent Baptist Churches

In addition - if you know of someone stationed in Germany- encourage them to attend one of these churches listed above.


and if you are Southern Baptist - check out this list.
Home - International Baptist Convention
 

SGO

Well-Known Member
SGO are you saying that you are the pastor of Milton Baptist?
If so, than why does your profile say "Non-Baptist Christian"?

Also, if you are in the UK - you might be interested in this list of IFB churches in Germany - most consist of USA military personel
Germany Independent Baptist Churches

In addition - if you know of someone stationed in Germany- encourage them to attend one of these churches listed above.


and if you are Southern Baptist - check out this list.
Home - International Baptist Convention

Old Chap,

You, and only you, may refer to me as Pastor SGO.

I am a Christian before any denomination and Baptist or Bible Churchist by other name but do not prefer it.

The Congregation is in the UK.

The post is from an old Baptist Board thread in the archives.

Cheers for the links.

Cheerio.
 

Earth Wind and Fire

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Site Supporter
Old Chap,

You, and only you, may refer to me as Pastor SGO.

I am a Christian before any denomination and Baptist or Bible Churchist by other name but do not prefer it.

The Congregation is in the UK.

The post is from an old Baptist Board thread in the archives.

Cheers for the links.

Cheerio.
OH I say Old boy, so being a Brit and all... do you have a tea preference? I’m partial to Earl Grey with the bergamot... the vendor is Bigelow Tea blenders out of the states. I prefer them to Twinings.
 

SGO

Well-Known Member
Young Sir,

I shall kindly refer you to Saved By Grace or Sir Martin Marprelate;
for they are, at this time, Her Majesty's premier teas er, or beg pardon, I err, masters of infusion on this gilded forum.

Knave SGO
 

Earth Wind and Fire

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Young Sir,

I shall kindly refer you to Saved By Grace or Sir Martin Marprelate;
for they are, at this time, Her Majesty's premier teas er, or beg pardon, I err, masters of infusion on this gilded forum.

Knave SGO
Oh I say old boy, how can you claim to be British without a daily cup of tea!?! Unheard of Swithens... just not cricket.
 

SGO

Well-Known Member
Young Sir,

Fancy a cuppa?
Expecting you are cheekily mining a claim and
chuffed to bits about it.
 

Logos1560

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One would need to find writings of those who compiled this confession of faith that make that claim to establish a KJVO position from this. That they call a translation the Scriptures does not correlate to them meaning the translations are inspired.

KJV-only advocates are trying to read something into the Westminster Confession of Faith about Bible translations that it does not state.

There is clear historical evidence that some members of the Westminster Assembly considered the KJV to have some errors [both errors in printing and errors in translation] and to need revision since they were involved in an effort to revise it in the 1650's.

A bill for revising the English translation of the Scriptures in the 1650’s passed by Parliament would show that Bible translations were not considered to be inspired or perfect by the Westminster Assembly since some of its members are named as involved in an effort to revise it.

John Stoughton cited this bill as stating: “it is our duty to endeavour to have the Bible translated in all places as accurately and as perfectly agreeing with the original Hebrew and Greek as we can attain unto” (Ecclesiastical History of England, II, p. 545). From a draft of a bill for revising the English translation, John Stoughton listed the following men who were to “search and observe wherein the last translation appears to be wronged by the Prelates, or printers, or others”: “John Owen, Ralph Cudworth, Mr. Jenkins, William Greenhill, Samuel Slater, William Cowper, Henry Jessey, Ralph Venninge, and John Row” (Ibid.). Stoughton cited the bill as appointing Dr. Thomas Goodwin, Dr. [Anthony] Tuckney, and Mr. Joseph Caryl as supervisors of the revision (p. 545). Ira Price observed that “the reasons that lay back of the bill were in part errors, mainly printers’, and some in translation, and also the so-called prelatical language of the version” (Ancestry, p. 280). Henry Barker noted that “the errors of the Authorized Version, through careless editing and proof-reading, but still more what was called its ‘mistranslations’ and its ‘prelatic language’ contributed toward the movement” (English Bible, p. 187). H. W. Hoare wrote: “In part they were influenced by the fact that many blunders had already come to light in the printing, and that the new edition was accused in certain quarters both of numerous mistranslations and also of “speaking the prelatic language’” (Evolution, p. 275). John Eadie pointed out that the report of 14 changes made by prelates became part of the preamble of a bill in Parliament around 1657 (English Bible, II, p. 272). John Eadie cited that preamble as noting that “the like testimony of these prelates” making those changes was “given by some other ancient and godly preachers also, who lived in those times” (Ibid.). Eadie also reported the preamble affirmed that “some appearance hereof may yet be seen in part of that very copy of these translators” (Ibid.). The Calender of State Papers, Domestic Series, 1652-1653 as edited by Mary Green noted: “Statement that Dr. [Thomas] Hill declared in his sermon, and has since published, that when the Bible had been translated by the translators appointed, the New Testament was looked over by some prelates he could name, to bring it to speak prelatical language, and that he was informed by a great observer, that in 14 places, whereof he instanced five or six, it was corrupted by them. The like testimony was given by some other ancient and godly preachers who lived in those times, and some appearance hereof may yet be seen in a part of that very copy of those translations” (p. 73). In his 1648 sermon, Thomas Hill (c1602-1653), a member of the Westminster Assembly, had stated: “I have it from certain hands, such as lived in those times, that when the Bible had been translated by the translators appointed, the New Testament was looked over by some of the great Prelates, (men I could name some of their persons) to bring it to speak prelatical language, and they did alter fourteen places in the New Testament to make them speak the language of the Church of England” (Six Sermons, p. 24; see also Currie, Jus Populi Divinum, pp. 37-38, Eadie, English Bible, II, p. 272, and Bridges, Patronage in the Church of Scotland, p. 6). This historical evidence would demonstrate that members of the Westminster Assembly considered the KJV to have some errors including some in translation, to have some prelatical language indicating episcopal bias, and to need revision.
 

rlvaughn

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Thanks for the interesting information related to the Westminster Confession that you brought up about what author David Daniels claims.
The accurate term KJV-only is used by Bible believers to define and describe any view that accepts or makes some type of exclusive claims for only one English Bible translation—the KJV. Holders of a KJV-only view would in effect attempt to suggest, assume, or claim that the KJV is the word of God in English in some different sense than any other English translation is the word of God in English.
Moving on from that diversion, I am still interested in whether you would think the following quotes from different groups named in the OP would distinguish them as KJVO, according to your own definition.
“Two great deceptions have now overtaken mankind. The first is the unproved Theory of Evolution and the second is the Counterfeit Evolving Bibles that are currently flooding the market. Both cast doubt on the accuracy of the Real Word of God, the King James Bible.”
“We read only from the King James Version Holy Bible, any other Bible is incorrect and is not as according to the Word of God, which was made by men being inspired by the Spirit of God, to write these things as a guide, evidence to who he is and how to live Holy in God.”
“We wholeheartedly endorse the use of the Authorized Version (King James Version) of the Bible as the final authority in our English-speaking churches and schools.”
“We believe that the authorized King James Version of the Bible is the true guide with nothing added to it or taken away.”
“The original autographs were inspired. The King James Bible is those same autographs preserved. Why did God inspire a perfect original if he didn’t plan on preserving it?”
“We believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and that He was born of the virgin Mary and the scriptures of the Old and New Testament are the inspired Word of God, and that the New Testament is our rule of faith and practice. The King James Bible is the only version to be read in our churches. Other versions are of no more value than a commentary on the scriptures.”
 

rlvaughn

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Yes, I would say so. While they probably are tecnically TRO, the print on their site The ESV is a Perversion of the Word of God (important specifically because of its popularity among Presbyterian and Reformed churches), which includes this statement:
My personal belief is that when it comes to the issue of the Final Authority of God’s Word today, if a Christian is not a Textus Receptus/King James Bible proponent, then he can be described as one of whom God said: – “every man did that which is right in his own eyes.” Each one then becomes his own scholar and makes up his personalized Bible version as he goes along.
Thanks.
 

Walter

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No surprise that Mormons would continue to use the Bible that was in vogue at the time Joseph Smith started his church, the Bible he referred to, and the Bible after which he styled his Book of Mormon. After all, they think he was a prophet of the latter days. It seems to me that they are sort of stuck with it, all of which is no fault of the King James Version itself.
It can just as easily be said that "the New Testament in Greek does not teach" some doctrines taught by non-KJV and anti-KJV users.

I have asked Mormon missionaries at each occasion of their visits why the Book of Mormon was translated from the 'Golden Tablets' was 'translated' using Elizabethan language which no person in the century in which Joseph Smith translated these tablets spoke. The answer I usually get is 'well, it is such a beautiful style that it is natural that God would want it done so.'
 
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