Our Lord is terrible

[TCGreek]

In sermons words must be defined in the course of the preaching .

Now this is the clincher for me as a preacher of the Word.:thumbs:

But I like the HCSB at this point: "For the Lord Most High is awe-inspiring, a great King over all the earth."

Then not even "terrible" without explanation would work and neither does "awesome."

I think you nailed it, Rippon. Preachers must learn to define in contemporary terms.

 

[Deacon]

Terrible - 1. Frightful; adapted to excite terror; dreadful; formidable. (Webster's 1828)

Does "awesome" describe the fear of the Lord the way "terrible" does? When Bill and Ted say "awesome", does this have the same contemporary meaning as "terrible" did for hundreds of years?

Part of the problem is that people don't even know what words mean today.

Rufus you've been watching too many movies. :laugh:

As defined in the Oxford English Dictionary, "Awesome" fits quite well.

Awe
1. Immediate and active fear; terror, dread
2. From its use in reference to the Divine Being this passes gradually into: Dread mingled with veneration, reverencial or respectful fear; the attitude of mind subdued to profound reverence in the presence of supreme authority, moral greatness or sublimity, or mysterious sacredness.
3. The feeling of solemn and reverencial wonder, tinged with latent fear, inspired by what is terribly sublime and majestic in nature, e.g. thunder, a storm at sea.
OED, A-595

Rob

 

[npetreley]

Rufus you've been watching too many movies. :laugh:

(Said in my best surfer voice)

The Lord is awwwwwesome, dude!!!

Righteous.

 

[Ed Edwards]

That's one of the reasons God has so
graciously given us the modern versions, so that we
don't have to be stuck with an understanding that
is 400 years old. Thank God for the MVs!

Amen, Brother Keith M - Preach it! :thumbs:

Our Lord is Terrible and so is Bro. Keith M!

 

[Rippon]

A Capital " T" for both the LORD and Keith ? No , if the LORD is TERRIBLE in the classic sense , I do not think there is an equivalency .

 

[Ed Edwards]

Caution: the following link leads to perverse stuff.

Urban Dictionary:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=terrible

This dictionary allows you to vote.
The only majority of yes 'up' votes is:

1. terrible - 8 up, 5 down

Noun: A physically undesirable woman

If we as Christians don't communicate with people,
the Muslims will or the Communists will,
etc.

The Bible commands that we learn to communicate
with people (Red are the Lord's words):

Matthew 10:16 (KJV1611 Edition):
Behold, I send you foorth as sheepe
in the middest of wolues:
be yee therefore wise as serpents,
and harmelesse as doues.

(note this does NOT say
"as wolves among sheep"
nor
"as slimey as snakes
and as stupid as doves".

 

[Ed Edwards]

Rephrased for a kinder BB:

...

Our Lord is Terrible.
Bro. Keith M is also terrible.

 

[tinytim]

No sir. I would have no hesitation to speak on the street and proclaim that "The Lord is terrible". In fact, next Friday I'll make this my theme verse in your honor...

"Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences." - 2 Corinthians 5:11​

If you start proclaiming "The Lord is terrible" in the streets... and don't explain what you mean by the word "terrible" You my brother, will be guilty of distorting the word of God...

Because you know well the modern definition of terrible..

Part of being a preacher is communicating the correct message.
And if you use words that people define one way but you define another it is only ethical to let them know what you truly mean...

If not.. you are deceiving the people...

Wouldn't it be a shame for someone to walk away thinking that you think that God is Rotten...horrible, etc...

That is why Awesome is a much better word... People know what that word means.... (I like awe-inspiring better myself)

So would you tell a 8 yr old that God was terrible just because the Bible says so... without explaining to them that terrible in the KJV does not mean the same as it does in everyday life?

 

[npetreley]

So would you tell a 8 yr old that God was terrible just because the Bible says so... without explaining to them that terrible in the KJV does not mean the same as it does in everyday life?

You're terrible, dude. :laugh:

 

[James_Newman]

Exciting extreme alarm or intense fear, I think that is a good approximation of what the word terrible should convey.

 

[Rufus_1611]

Part of the problem is that people don't even know what words mean today.

Rufus you've been watching too many movies. :laugh:

I don't watch entertainment movies anymore but I'm not that far removed from them to remember the lessons they taught and I do live in the reality that television and movies are affecting the world views of most of the American populace.

For example, in Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure, their guide was a dude named "Rufus" (how about that coincidence?). Bill & Ted referred to him as an "awesome dude". I don't think they feared Rufus.

In Wayne's World, the illustrious Wayne Campbell says the following: "But I have this awesome cable access show, and I still know how to party." I don't think anyone was to fear his cable access show.

When Bart Simpson says "Awesome man!". Is there something about fear in that use?

If you look at the definitions on Urban dictionary, none have definitions that include an element of fear or terror.

If you Google the word "awesome" you will find things like "100 Awesome Music Videos", the "Awesome band".

I contend that today, the most common meaning of the word "awesome", is remarkable, outstanding or "very cool".

Here's some samples of the words the modern versions use instead of "terrible" in Psalm 47:2:

• Awesome - NIV
• To be feared - NASB
• Stunning - Message
• Excites Terror - Amplified
• Awesome - NLT
• To be feared - ESV
• Fearsome - CEV
• Awesome - NRSV
• Awesome - NKJV
• Wonderful - NCV

Thus, this isn't even an across the board problem with the MVs as some of them include the element of fear. The Amplified "excites terror" gets the point across pretty well and even the "To be feared" renderings work, in a sense, as well.

As defined in the Oxford English Dictionary, "Awesome" fits quite well.

Awe
1. Immediate and active fear; terror, dread
2. From its use in reference to the Divine Being this passes gradually into: Dread mingled with veneration, reverencial or respectful fear; the attitude of mind subdued to profound reverence in the presence of supreme authority, moral greatness or sublimity, or mysterious sacredness.
3. The feeling of solemn and reverencial wonder, tinged with latent fear, inspired by what is terribly sublime and majestic in nature, e.g. thunder, a storm at sea.
OED, A-595

Rob

Well that's true. However, the premise that we need modern versions is much predicated on the belief they need to be easy to understand for folks. If they need to go to a dictionary to figure out that "awesome" includes "terror, dread", then why can't they pick up a dictionary to determine what "terrible" means? Further, if "awesome" means what Bill & Ted, Wayne & Garth, Bart Simpson etc. say, then doesn't this mean that the NIV, and NKJV are now outdated and need to be updated so that it's easy for the common person to understand it?

 

[Rufus_1611]

If you start proclaiming "The Lord is terrible" in the streets... and don't explain what you mean by the word "terrible" You my brother, will be guilty of distorting the word of God...

Because you know well the modern definition of terrible..

Part of being a preacher is communicating the correct message.
And if you use words that people define one way but you define another it is only ethical to let them know what you truly mean...

If not.. you are deceiving the people...

Wouldn't it be a shame for someone to walk away thinking that you think that God is Rotten...horrible, etc...

I don't disagree with what you're saying above. I would hope that if people didn't understand what I was saying they would stop and ask and I would do my best to communicate the message.

That is why Awesome is a much better word... People know what that word means.... (I like awe-inspiring better myself)

If you went to a mall and asked people to define "awesome", I would speculate that at least 9 out of 10 would say it means "cool" or some variation of. Only the smallest of percentage of people would include fear or terror in the description of the word. Thus, if you use "awesome", to be consistent with your instructions in the first couple of paragraphs, it will be necessary that you explain to the people that this word includes fear or terror.

So would you tell a 8 yr old that God was terrible just because the Bible says so... without explaining to them that terrible in the KJV does not mean the same as it does in everyday life?

I would tell the 8 year old what the Bible says and work with the child to ensure his or her understanding of the passages studied. The word "terrible" would be no different than the words, "calvary", "transgression", "propitiation" or any other word that an 8 year old didn't understand.

 

[av1611jim]

I don't disagree with what you're saying above. I would hope that if people didn't understand what I was saying they would stop and ask and I would do my best to communicate the message.

If you went to a mall and asked people to define "awesome", I would speculate that at least 9 out of 10 would say it means "cool" or some variation of. Only the smallest of percentage of people would include fear or terror in the description of the word. Thus, if you use "awesome", to be consistent with your instructions in the first couple of paragraphs, it will be necessary that you explain to the people that this word includes fear or terror.

I would tell the 8 year old what the Bible says and work with the child to ensure his or her understanding of the passages studied. The word "terrible" would be no different than the words, "calvary", "transgression", "propitiation" or any other word that an 8 year old didn't understand.

AMEN brother PREACH IT!

Excellent post demonstrating the inconsistencies of the MV proponent's argument for an "easy to understand" Scripture.

IF it is a given that we need modern versions because we need to define words in older versions then we will NEVER have a reliable Bible which conveys what God said. This is self evident because words are defined by the people who use those words (as in the case of "awesome".) Hence, we will be REDEFINING what God said rather than EXPLAINING what God said.

Nehemiah 8:8 So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading.



Good job brother. Good post!!!!

 

[npetreley]

I would tell the 8 year old what the Bible says and work with the child to ensure his or her understanding of the passages studied. The word "terrible" would be no different than the words, "calvary", "transgression", "propitiation" or any other word that an 8 year old didn't understand.

Improper analogy. "Propitiation" means the same thing now as it did 300 years ago. It's just a difficult word. "Terrible" doesn't mean the same thing now as it did 300 years ago. Say "propitiation" to an 8 yr old and they probably won't have a clue what you're talking about. Say "terrible" to an 8 yr old and they'll know exactly what it means today, but they still won't have a clue what you're talking about because you're speaking in an outdated language.

 

[av1611jim]

Improper analogy. "Propitiation" means the same thing now as it did 300 years ago. It's just a difficult word. "Terrible" doesn't mean the same thing now as it did 300 years ago. Say "propitiation" to an 8 yr old and they probably won't have a clue what you're talking about. Say "terrible" to an 8 yr old and they'll know exactly what it means today, but they still won't have a clue what you're talking about because you're speaking in an outdated language.

This is not true. This 8yr old may think he knows what it means but more than likely he will have only ONE understanding of that word. 'Terrible' has 4 meanings today. Just like it had several meanings when it was used by the translators of the KJV. The translators chose the word terrible to convey the meaning of the Hebrew word. And that word is STILL relevant today, in spite of what additional meanings it may have.

This is not rocket science. We are talking about an 8yr old kid. 8 YEARS OLD!!! Surely you do not think an 8yr old can grasp every concept of Deity without a mature adult believer explaining such concepts? For goodness sake, man! Even adults have trouble with the attributes of God!!!!!!!!!!!

The word "terrible" is NOT outdated. And it IS a proper word for describing our God. The FIRST definition in Webster's dictionary for 'terrible' is INTENSE FEAR. That is a proper description of our omnipotent God!

As Paul tells us in :
Hebrews 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

 

[Rippon]

Jim1611 : I think the versions older than the KJV might be easier to understand despite the old spellings . As I mentioned before , the Wycliffe has : " hiy and fearful" , and the Coverdale has " the most hyest to be feared" .

 

[Lacy Evans]

I bet you explain what you mean by "terrible" in your sermon. That would be the same thing as defining it for your audience so they don't misunderstand the statement.

That's what the bible does.

1 Samuel 9:8-10
8 And the servant answered Saul again, and said, Behold, I have here at hand the fourth part of a shekel of silver: that will I give to the man of God, to tell us our way.
9 (Beforetime in Israel, when a man went to inquire of God, thus he spake, Come, and let us go to the seer: for he that is now called a Prophet was beforetime called a Seer.)
10 Then said Saul to his servant, Well said; come, let us go. So they went unto the city where the man of God was.

It's called "holding fast the form of sound words" (2 Tim 1:13)

Otherwise you have to retranslate the Bible everytime some middle school kid starts using a word in a novel way.

 

[Lacy Evans]

This is not true. This 8yr old may think he knows what it means but more than likely he will have only ONE understanding of that word. 'Terrible' has 4 meanings today. Just like it had several meanings when it was used by the translators of the KJV. The translators chose the word terrible to convey the meaning of the Hebrew word. And that word is STILL relevant today, in spite of what additional meanings it may have.

I wouldn't go there Jim. Don't show him a dictionary. He'll argue definition one, in all contexts, for an eternity!!:tonofbricks:

 

[robycop3]

There's a simple solution: TALK WITH AN 8-YR-OLD IN THE LANGUAGE HE/SHE UNDERSTANDS! I don't know of any who use Elizabethan English regularly, but LOTS who use OUR English all the time.

That's one of the reasons God has caused His word to be presented in OUR language, as well as allowed the outdated versions to still be available....and why no One-version-Only doctrines are true.

 

[Lacy Evans]

There's a simple solution: TALK WITH AN 8-YR-OLD IN THE LANGUAGE HE/SHE UNDERSTANDS! I don't know of any who use Elizabethan English regularly, but LOTS who use OUR English all the time.

That's one of the reasons God has caused His word to be presented in OUR language, as well as allowed the outdated versions to still be available....and why no One-version-Only doctrines are true.

I have no problem in talking to the 8 yr old like in language he'll understand. I think it would be dumb to take him to the "original Greek". (But he'd prolly think you was purty smart!)

Lacy