Our Role In Sanctification: An Imperative

[Reformed]

I reject the notion that we have a role in it.

I agree that progressive sanctification is the work of the Holy Spirit in making believers more like Christ. However human action is certainly involved. If not then there would be no reason for the bible to contain any commandments. So, while sanctification is monergistic (just like salvation), man is not exempt from obedience. I like the way Paul melds the two together:

Philippians 2:12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

To your point "it is God who works in you". That has never been disputed. But then there is the responsibility of the individual to "work out your salvation". Both are equally true. The problem with taking the former to the extreme is functional Antinomianism. "Well, God is the one who will sanctify me, so there is nothing I need to do. If he wants to get my attention, he knows where to find me." I am not saying you believe that. That is why I wrote in a previous post that many functional Antinomians will bristle in response to the label. But that is what happens when you, the individual, divests himself of having any responsibility in sanctification.

Of course, since God is the one working in us, progressive sanctification will take place. Not every person will finish their course in this life with the same level of sanctification. But to the degree that the Holy Spirit does practically sanctify us, "He who began a good work in you will perfect it in the day of Christ Jesus" (Phil. 1:6), is true.

 

[Iconoclast]

A really good thread I'd like to expand on it in more detail.that will not happen until four and a half hours from now or 300 miles whichever comes first

 

[Iconoclast]

kyredneck

OK. But it's also my position eternally due solely to His imputed righteousness, regardless of my omissions or commissions.

I do not think anyone disputes this??

Lol, OK. ....so you say...

There are some people who believe they need to "help" the Holy Spirit do His work. They harm a church a.nd I can understand your caution about them....They should not be the focus however

Icon, most of the above is subject to varying interpretations and degrees.

Instead of seeing it as varying degrees or interpretations....I believe it is written so we can quite actively and positively pray and ask God to enable us to do all we can in a positive way to obey these commands with a view to help others and adorn the gospel....
Try not to see it as a legalistic list of do and don'ts , and how much should I do, or do I have to do.
look at it as ...we get to love and serve others...Lord help me to do those things you say...
46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

This section is one I would like to expand on ,in that we are told to speak of these very things...I think we should..not only here but in our local assemblies;

7 In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity,

8 Sound speech, that cannot be condemned; that he that is of the contrary part may be ashamed, having no evil thing to say of you.

9 Exhort servants to be obedient unto their own masters, and to please them well in all things; not answering again;

10 Not purloining, but shewing all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things.11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
15 These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.

Zactly. But in this case it would fall into 'Puritanical' more so than 'Pharisaical'.

I think reformed has framed out several profitable discussion points on this vital topic....His statement about why the puritans failed was right on the topic.
We can learn much from the puritans in both a positive and negative way.
Our discussions here on BB would be more edifying if we developed and expanded our understanding of the scripture and how to better obey, then all the rabbit trails.

Actually I'm not near as skeptical as you may think I am; I agree wholeheartedly with the function of the church in attending to the needs of the flock, and I personally have 'submitted' more times than I could even begin to remember and benefitted immensely from it.

You ,Aaron, and I agree much more than we disagree...I think you are viewing it from a cautious p,o,v,...

I'm honestly beginning to think that their 'point' is to present salvation through Christ to be as harsh and hard and difficult and rigid as possible with the intent to keep/scare false professors/easy believers away, or sumthin like that.

As Reformed also said..in our day doctrine and holiness of life are downplayed to the detriment of many churches.

I had planned to say more on this thread..but am burning out and must get some sleep..spent to much time on the other two threads.

 

[kyredneck]

Is the gospel really that difficult to comprehend?

It’s utter simplicity to me, now. It wasn’t always so when I was steeped in all the evangelical presuppositions.

I am asking you honestly, not with any hidden agenda. At least give me that. I do not participate on this board in order to obfuscate my opinions.

I believe you are very sincere, and I do appreciate that.

The gospel is freely preached to all, and all are called to receive it. It is required that one repent of their sins and place their faith in Christ…..

…..in order to gain what? Eternal life?

If someone confesses that they have done so, I am not going to grill them on the technical aspects of soteriology. To suggest otherwise is to misrepresent my position and that of others who share my view.

It’s not my intent to misrepresent your view, just to stir up our pure minds. I’m pretty sure I’ve got a handle on where you’re coming from.

However what happens after they confess Christ is vitally important.

Yes. It is of the utmost importance thing that we must do to be 'saved', we absolutely must continue/hold fast.

......to present you holy and without blemish and unreproveable before him: if so be that ye continue in the faith, grounded and stedfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel which ye heard, Col 1:22,23

Behold then the goodness and severity of God: toward them that fell, severity; but toward thee, God`s goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. Ro 11:22

Now I make known unto you brethren, the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye received, wherein also ye stand, by which also ye are saved, if ye hold fast the word which I preached unto you, except ye believed in vain. 1 Cor 15:1,2

but Christ as a son, over his house; whose house are we, if we hold fast our boldness and the glorying of our hope firm unto the end...... for we are become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our confidence firm unto the end: Heb 3:6,14

You are correct Reformed, what happens after they confess Christ is vitally important.

The matter at hand is not how one becomes saved, it is about the duties of a Christian. There is a teaching/preaching vacuum in Western churches in regards to this topic. People get bent out of shape and throw out accusations such as "Pharisee", "Legalist", "Fear-Monger" among other things. Instead of engaging on the topic they resort to pejoratives; either because they lack the ability to debate or because they already know their position is on shaky ground. If you cannot refute what I wrote by presenting your own biblical argument, then have you really added anything of value to the conversation? Is sanctification that unimportant of a subject, so as not to be discussed rationally?

As I’ve already posted before, I believe LS to be an overreaction to easy believism that places an overemphasis on sanctification, which is not new under the sun. IMO, in their zeal to fill this teaching/preaching vacuum on the topic of mortification, the approach of the LSers tends to mortify the very strength of the believer, which is the joy of the Lord. To continually have to sit under preaching that ever teaches that you’re not good enough because you’re not giving enough or you’re not coming enough or you’re not witnessing enough or you’re not devoted enough or you’re not grave enough or you’re not sober minded enough – etc., etc., fill in the blank with your pet rebukes, is an absolute joy killer, and has undoubtedly resulted in the 'discontinuance' of many of God's little lambs down through the centuries. There's no strength or nourishment on the plane the LSers are pointing to.

1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.
8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: Col 3

The LSers are placing the emphasis in the wrong direction. Attention needs to be directed to the source of our real strength to mortify the deeds of the body, to things above where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God, and not on the things of the earth, which are the very members we are to mortify.

 

[percho]

Does sanctification mean that one is set apart unto holiness?

Now we should be led by the Spirit and we should not quench the Spirit and that being said will we always be unholy as long as we have not been delivered from, the body of this death?

Is not all we can do before that is to be led by the Spirit and even then at times will we find ourselves quenching the Spirit?

 

[Iconoclast]

Kyred
post 24 gives balance to the teaching that is necessary many good points made in that post

 

[DHK]

There are some people who believe they need to "help" the Holy Spirit do His work. They harm a church a.nd I can understand your caution about them....They should not be the focus however

Don't you at least in some ways cooperate with the Holy Spirit--(a form of helping).

Grieve not the Holy Spirit.
Quench not the Holy Spirit.
Be filled with the Holy Spirit.

Do you sit alone in the middle of a farmer's field (or perhaps a truck), and allow the Holy Spirit to do these actions for you??
Or is there some effort on your part to carry out these commands?

 

[Reformed]

As I’ve already posted before, I believe LS to be an overreaction to easy believism that places an overemphasis on sanctification, which is not new under the sun. IMO, in their zeal to fill this teaching/preaching vacuum on the topic of mortification, the approach of the LSers tends to mortify the very strength of the believer, which is the joy of the Lord. To continually have to sit under preaching that ever teaches that you’re not good enough because you’re not giving enough or you’re not coming enough or you’re not witnessing enough or you’re not devoted enough or you’re not grave enough or you’re not sober minded enough – etc., etc., fill in the blank with your pet rebukes, is an absolute joy killer, and has undoubtedly resulted in the 'discontinuance' of many of God's little lambs down through the centuries. There's no strength or nourishment on the plane the LSers are pointing to.

1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.
8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: Col 3

The LSers are placing the emphasis in the wrong direction. Attention needs to be directed to the source of our real strength to mortify the deeds of the body, to things above where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God, and not on the things of the earth, which are the very members we are to mortify.

KY, I bolded and underlined a portion of your comments because I believe they get to the heart of the matter, or at least reveal the motivation behind your conviction. Any preacher, any church, that hammers the saints with one thing over and over again is wrong even if they are right. Maybe you were in a situation that resembled your comment; a pastor that constantly preached the struggles of being a Christian as opposed to the joy of being a Christian? That would be a very depressing experience for any of God's children.

Progressive sanctification (which is what Lordship Salvation is all about) is something we live every day. That does not mean a preacher needs to preach on it every Lord's Day. I preach verse by verse (expository method) and declare the full counsel of God. If a particular verse is on the subject of mortification of sin, then I will preach it as such. If the verse is on the joy of the Lord, I will preach the joy of the Lord. We cannot allow extremes to keep us from the truth. I do not shy away from the Doctrines of Grace because some individuals stray into Hyper-Calvinism. I simply draw boundaries based on what I believe the Word teaches in order to keep me from that error. The same with progressive sanctification.

 

[Iconoclast]

here I think you just misunderstood what I was speaking about I wasn't speaking about the idea that when I could do Christian works as the Spirit works and I swear to do all those things I was speaking more about legalistic Saints who tried to impose things on another Christians conscience that the Word of God doesn't .

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Progressive sanctification (which is what Lordship Salvation is all about) is something we live every day.

Unless you can agree with the following statements, you do not believe in progressive sanctification.

• The Bible teaches that a lost sinner who places his faith in the Lord Jesus Christ alone for his eternal salvation is instantaneously saved by God's grace from the penalty of sin, namely eternal separation from God in Hell. This is the past tense of salvation. It occurs at a point in time. It is conditioned on a single step of faith. It results in a person being born again (regeneration), eternally set-apart to God in Christ (positional sanctification), and declared judicially righteous in the eyes of God (justification). God makes our justification permanent from the moment we first believe.
• God also desires born again believers to be saved by His grace from the power of sin and its damaging effects in their lives. This is the present tense of salvation. This occurs at points of time as the child of God takes steps of faith or walks by faith. This results in a person becoming practically righteous in the eyes of God and men (practical sanctification). God makes this practical sanctification possible for every believer, but it is not guaranteed, as we shall see later in this article.
• Finally, God promises all who've been justified that He will also save them by His grace from the very presence of sin one day. This is the future tense of salvation. It will occur at a point in time, at the moment of resurrection or the Rapture. It is conditioned only upon the step of faith which preceded justification. It results in the child of God being made perfectly righteous in the eyes of God (perfect sanctification), no longer possessing a sinful nature, and being permanently and completely transformed into Christ's likeness in body, soul, and spirit (glorification). This is promised to every believer from the moment of initial faith in Christ.

Though you may claim to believe in progressive sanctification, it is more likely you see it in the same context that MacArthur sees it.

• "We have been justified, we are being sanctified, and we shall be glorified. No true believer will miss out on any stage of the process, though in this life we all find ourselves at different points along the way. This truth has been known historically as the perseverance of the saints. No doctrine has been more savaged by no-lordship theology. That is to be expected, because the doctrine of perseverance is antithetical to the entire no-lordship system. In fact, what they have pejoratively labeled "lordship salvation" is nothing but this very doctrine!"
• In another place, sounding perilously close to Roman Catholic soteriology, MacArthur states that sanctification "...is an experiential separation from sin that begins at salvation and continues in increasing degrees of practical holiness in one's life and behavior. Sanctification may be observable in greater or lesser degrees from believer to believer. But it is not optional, nor is it separable from other aspects of our salvation . . . There are not two kinds of righteousness – only two aspects of divine righteousness. Righteousness is a single package; God does not declare someone righteous whom He does not also make righteous. Having begun the process, He will continue it to ultimate glorification."

Though MacArthur and other Calvinists claim that every genuine believer will experience progressive sanctification in his or her earthly lifetime, the Apostle Paul in Romans 8:30 conspicuously omits any reference to sanctification between the guarantee of justification and glorification. It's true that God in His faithfulness never ceases working within the child of God to bring about greater practical sanctification.

Galatians 5, NASB
16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh.
17 For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please.

Philippians 2
13 for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure. .​

It is also true that, though most believers experience some measure of sanctification, this does not automatically guarantee that all believers will become sanctified or even progress in their sanctification, since that would require a continual volitional response of faith and yieldedness.

Romans 6
11 Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts,
13 and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.

Romans 12
1 Therefore I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship.

Ephesians 4
30 Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

Ephesians 5
18 And do not get drunk with wine, for that is dissipation, but be filled with the Spirit,

Philippians 2
12 So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling; ​

Whether those who claim Lordship salvation and progressive sanctification are the same thing or not, the fact is the way that most of you -- in fact, probably all of you -- believe it is not actually progressive sanctification, but a works-based salvation, or at the very least, a false conclusion about the way in which we are "set apart." Most of you, and perhaps all of you, deny that persistent sin in the body is possible and the believer suffering from such sin, such as addiction or compulsion, can still go to heaven. Among other things, this assumes heaven is our ultimate goal, and the way the gospel reads, it is not. Our ultimate goal is to serve Christ through serving others and bringing them the message of His sacrifice for salvation.

If practical sanctification were strictly a matter of God's will, then every child of God would automatically progress in sanctification. But Calvinism and its resultant doctrine of Lordship Salvation have seriously distorted the teaching of Scripture by claiming that our glorification, or final salvation, is determined partly by our faith in God's work for us at Calvary and partly by our collaboration with God's sanctifying work in us throughout our Christian lives. However, the terms of eternal salvation as presented in the Biblical Gospel simply involve trust in Christ's work on the cross, not trust in the Holy Spirit's present work within us.

To muddle this distinction the false teaching of "Lordship salvation" as described above and what actually is progressive sanctification is to muddle the gospel of Christ itself and fail to understand what the Bible teaches.

 

[Iconoclast]

who wrote this article dcon?

 

[Yeshua1]

The point is that we cannot approach the Christian life as though these imperatives are just suggestions. A large segment of evangelicalism stops the imperative at the verse you partially quoted, "Believe on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ." After that they embrace a form of functional antinomianism, while all the while denying it.

When I was entrenched in fundamentalism I saw this first-hand this functional antinomianism. I attended a very well known bible college in New York State. It is known for its multi-faceted evangelism programs directed mostly at youth and teens. The students who are the foot soldiers in these programs are taught to lead people in the sinners prayer and to assure them they are now part of the family of God. They are not taught how to live. They may or may not be directed to a local church. If it turns out their "decision for Christ" did not stick the first time, they can come back for a rededication ceremony where they can throw their stick in the fire and sign a dedication card to go along with the spiritual birth certificate they were originally given. I wish I could say this view was limited to just this one organization, but sadly, it's not.

If our churches are not calling on Christians to live like Christians, and holding them accountable when they don't, how are they any different than modern feel-good psychology or the self-help movement? We may take three steps forward and two steps back in our Christian walk, but Christian maturity is not measured by leaps and bounds, it is measured sometimes in inches. The battle is often proof that the Spirit is working as it wars against the flesh. When a church accepts a Christianity less than that, at best it is doing its members a disservice. At worse it is culpable in allowing unbelievers to believe they are part of the fold.

There are two classes of Christians in the Church today, there are some who mean well, want to live for the Lord jesus, but expereince chapter 7 of Romans...

There are also those whose desire is to serve and please god, and live by chapter 8 in Romans...someone else is not as strict in what they consider "keeping the law' is as you are, that you tend to see them as teaching /living "anti law!"

Think that you are painting a "broad brush" here, as if

 

[Thousand Hills]

who wrote this article dcon?

http://www.duluthbible.org/filerequest/9783.pdf

Page 2 of this file is pretty much word for word with what D "Con" posts

Though MacArthur and other Calvinists claim that every genuine believer will experience progressive sanctification in his or her earthly lifetime, the Apostle Paul in Romans 8:30 conspicuously omits any reference to sanctification between the guarantee of justification and glorification. It's true that God in His faithfulness never ceases working within the child of God to bring about greater practical sanctification.
Galatians 5, NASB
16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh.
17 For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please.

Philippians 2
13 for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure. .
It is also true that, though most believers experience some measure of sanctification, this does not automatically guarantee that all believers will become sanctified or even progress in their sanctification, since that would require a continual volitional response of faith and yieldedness.
Romans 6
11 Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts,
13 and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.

Romans 12
1 Therefore I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship.

Ephesians 4
30 Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

Ephesians 5
18 And do not get drunk with wine, for that is dissipation, but be filled with the Spirit,

Philippians 2
12 So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling;

 

[Reformed]

There are two classes of Christians in the Church today, there are some who mean well, want to live for the Lord jesus, but expereince chapter 7 of Romans...

There are also those whose desire is to serve and please god, and live by chapter 8 in Romans...someone else is not as strict in what they consider "keeping the law' is as you are, that you tend to see them as teaching /living "anti law!"

Think that you are painting a "broad brush" here, as if

You've missed the entire point I have been trying to make. I am not sitting as a judge over anyone. The issue involved is not how godly a person can be. There are many people that have been saved out of a life of addiction, dysfunctional families, poverty, depression et. al. They may struggle with those things for the rest of their life; occasionally falling into sin, and then repenting and experiencing the mercy and grace of God. The fact that they do repent and continue their Christian journey is evidence of the Holy Spirit working in their life. Progressive sanctification describes the transforming work of the Holy Spirit in the lives of believers, making them more like Christ (Phil. 1:6). "More" is a subjective term in this case. Not everyone will mature in their Christian faith to the same degree. But each Christian will progress; not because of their own effort, but because of the Holy Spirit that works in them.

 

[kyredneck]

http://www.duluthbible.org/filerequest/9783.pdf

Page 2 of this file is pretty much word for word with what D "Con" posts

LOL ... :thumbs:

 

[Thousand Hills]

LOL ... :thumbs:

must be a "stronghold"? :smilewinkgrin:

 

[kyredneck]

...he's unabashed and shameless about it...

 

[Iconoclast]

must be a "stronghold"? :smilewinkgrin:

:applause:

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

who wrote this article dcon?

http://www.duluthbible.org/filerequest/9783.pdf

Page 2 of this file is pretty much word for word with what D "Con" posts

My apologies to both you and the author. I always credit outside sources, but I failed to do so this time. It isn't the first time on BB, and while I always endeavor to meet the copyright requirements, perhaps it won't be the last, but if it is not, I'll correct that error as well. Thanks for holding me accountable on that. I sometimes get engrossed in the argument and neglect the necessities.

That said, the facts stated therein should be dealt with directly rather than attempting to make accusations that are unfounded.

 

[Aaron]

[Rom 15:16 KJV] That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.