Our spirits go back to God after dying?!

[xdisciplex]

"Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." (Ecclesiastes 12:7)

This confuses me!
I always thought that we (humans) are spirits, which live in a body. The body is the temple, the house, the shell. We also have a soul, but the soul is not what is immortal, is it?
I always thought that what we really are is a spirit. But the bible says that the spirits go back to God! And it doesn't only say the spirits of the saved, it seems to mean all spirits. But if all spirits go back to God then what happens to us? Does this mean that we aren't even spirits?
Then what are we? Souls? Does our soul live forever? This is really confusing.
This verse makes it look as if God only lends the spirits to us because without them we wouldn't even be alive and after dying he receives them back, but this would mean that our spirits is not what defines us. Then what is our personality based on? The brain, which dies one day?

 

[gekko]

in Hebrews i think it says that God is able to destroy both body and soul in hell.

he doesnt mention spirit.
---

i'll have to do some more research on this as well...

 

[J. Jump]

xdisciplex, I Thessalonians 5:23 tells us that we are body, soul and spirit. Hebrews 4:12 tells us that the Word of God separates the soul from the spirit. This happens at salvation as the spirit is made alive and brought into the Light. And just as in Genesis 1 God separates the light from the darkness.

If you want a great study on the tri-part man then visit my website www.1-heart.org and click on the developing perspective link. Great study.

We have no record of any sinful man standing in the presence of God in his sinful state, and so if the spirit is still dead in trespasses and sin then I don't see how that dead spirit could go back to be in the presence of God.

Hope that makes sense.

 

[Mishelly]

Correct me if I am misinterrpeting

To me our Spirt is our emotions and thoughts, actions. The Soul is our being, who we are. God will judge our actions with the Spirits and our Soul's to know our hearts

Matthew 12:18
“ Behold! My Servant whom I have chosen,My Beloved in whom My soul is well pleased!I will put My Spirit upon Him,And He will declare justice to the Gentiles.

This next thought may start something

In John 3:5-6 5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit..

Hebrews 4:12- "For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit..." .

To me it says that unless we live as God says through the Spirit then our Soul may be corrupt.

 

[BobRyan]

"Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." (Ecclesiastes 12:7)

This confuses me!
I always thought that we (humans) are spirits, which live in a body. The body is the temple, the house, the shell. We also have a soul, but the soul is not what is immortal, is it?
I always thought that what we really are is a spirit. But the bible says that the spirits go back to God! And it doesn't only say the spirits of the saved, it seems to mean all spirits. But if all spirits go back to God then what happens to us? Does this mean that we aren't even spirits?
Then what are we? Souls? Does our soul live forever? This is really confusing.

#1. You "are mortal" -- not immortal.

#2. The spirit of ALL both saved and lost goes to God at death. God breathed into man the spirit of life and man became "A living soul" according to Gen 2.

#3. "The living PERSON knows that they will die but the dead do not know anything".

#4. The body without the spirit "is dead"

[/quote]
This verse makes it look as if God only lends the spirits to us because without them we wouldn't even be alive and after dying he receives them back, but this would mean that our spirits is not what defines us. Then what is our personality based on? The brain, which dies one day? [/quote]

The brain indeed. But the spirit does define you. The spirit of all going to God means that ALL (both saved and lost) are kept by God for the day of resurrection. Because of that - when they are resurrected it is the SAME person even though they may have a new body.

Matt 10 says that for the wicked - God will then "destroy BOTH body and soul in fiery hell"

 

[J. Jump]

To me it says that unless we live as God says through the Spirit then our Soul may be corrupt.

EXACTLY!

Eternal salvation saves the spirit of man, apart from man's works, but unless the man lives righteously then his soul will not be saved!

You've got it!

 

[J. Jump]

The spirit of ALL both saved and lost goes to God at death.

Bob can you show me how that squares with human sin can not be in the presence of God? We have no Scriptural record of any human being being in the presence of God in an unsaved state.

God doesn't allow sin back into His presence, save Satan, but Satan in not a human.

 

[Eric B]

Apparently, sin lies in the soul, not the spirit. The spirit is just the part of us that makes us human as opposed to animal souls, so this can go back to God even in an unsaved person.

 

[xdisciplex]

I don't understand anything.:tear:

Does this mean when we die we do not go to heaven but there's simply nothing? Until judgement day? This would suck! And I still don't know what I actually am. Am I a spirit or am I a soul or what am I?
Are all humans the same when they are born? Does God produce our spirits or souls or whatever we are on an assembly line or does he configure us all individually? Do we have a "pre-set" when we are born? Or are we the way we are only because of circumstances?

 

[Mishelly]

I don't understand anything.:tear:

Does this mean when we die we do not go to heaven but there's simply nothing?

I am working on this one myself. I believe that it is not nothing, we are asleep with Christ. How peaceful of a sleep is that going to be, sleeping with Christ!

1 Thessalonians 4:13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

And I still don't know what I actually am. Am I a spirit or am I a soul or what am I?

We are created for His Glory and in His image. I think we are a soul with an active spirit.

Do we have a "pre-set" when we are born? Or are we the way we are only because of circumstances?

People have different views on Predestination

Eph. 1:11, "also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will."

I will be the first to admit that I am still learning and I have gained quite a bit of understanding, or perhaps clarification on why I believe what I know to be truth in the short time I have been on the BB. There are wonderful people here that have helped me and I know they can help you, guided with the Spirit.

You have a lot of different questions in this one

 

[xdisciplex]

You have a lot of different questions in this one

Yes, I know. When I start with one question I get many more questions in the process of thinking about this 1 question.

 

[Mishelly]

I am the say way. I get so bogged down at times:tear:

:type:What I do is type thoughts into word and when another thought comes that leads to a differnt line of thinking I open another document to study on the thought as an individual. Then I come back to my original and go from there.

Sometimes I have many documents going at one time. I am glad for computers, my hand would be numb and carpel tunnel burning:laugh:

 

[xdisciplex]

I am the say way. I get so bogged down at times:tear:

:type:What I do is type thoughts into word and when another thought comes that leads to a differnt line of thinking I open another document to study on the thought as an individual. Then I come back to my original and go from there.

Yes, this sucks. I also have so many questions at one time that I have a hard time even keeping up with all the threads. :tear:
Simply writing down my questions doesn't help me because I can hardly ever come up with own answers to my questions.

 

[Mishelly]

That is why it is called studying :laugh:

I listen to different people then go a the quest to align it with the Bible. Sometimes it takes me a while because I tend to be hardheaded :tongue3:

I was raised to know Christ and here I am at 36 and still searching. I feel ashamed in that I feel I should have all the answers by now.

We were not meant to come up with our own answers, otherwise Fellowship would not be so important.

If we were to have all the answers then there would not be Ministers or messages board to talk with others. This is one of my Bible Study groups.

 

[xdisciplex]

But what do you do when you have thousands of questions and want answers and not some day but right now? And if you don't get the answers you also don't find peace.

 

[Mishelly]

No one ever said it would be easy, that is the Narrow Path

I get frustrated many times and want to know NOW. I have to remind myself God knows what is in your heart. He know you are trying and He loves your thirst for knowledge

Matthew 5:6
Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, For they shall be filled.

Matthew 6

33 But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you. 34 Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about its own things. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble.


These are not the verses I was looking for, but your thirst for knowledge will be quenched by God's time. I know how frustrating that is, we are only human after all and God is God - we are not meant to understand everything.

You will be in my prayers, patience is a virtue, I lack it though

 

[Marcia]

But what do you do when you have thousands of questions and want answers and not some day but right now? And if you don't get the answers you also don't find peace.

I don't think this particular forum is the place to get your answers. You are getting answers from a lot of people with different views and some of them are not that great, imo.

It would be better for you to find a good church or a solid believer who could disciple you and teach you. Or order some good bible study books and go through scripture. Just trying to get all these questions answered is not going to help you unless you study the Bible yourself and see if they are true. And it's better to get the answers guided by a mature believer who know his stuff and is solid.

You are just getting bits and pieces of this and that, and are not getting grounded in the Bible, which is what you need. But I'm repeating myself as I've told you this before. You even said that you were not reading or studying the bible as you should be. Has that changed??

 

[Mishelly]

I find peace in knowing that God knows what is in my heart and my desire to know Him

I find peace in John 3:16. There is a reason even non christians know this verse.

I find peace in fellowship and knowing others are praying for me, and I for them in the quest for understanding:Fish:

 

[Mishelly]

I don't think this particular forum is the place to get your answers. You are getting answers from a lot of people with different views and some of them are not that great, imo.

It would be better for you to find a good church or a solid believer who could disciple you and teach you. Or order some good bible study books and go through scripture. Just trying to get all these questions answered is not going to help you unless you study the Bible yourself and see if they are true. And it's better to get the answers guided by a mature believer who know his stuff and is solid.

You are just getting bits and pieces of this and that, and are not getting grounded in the Bible, which is what you need. But I'm repeating myself as I've told you this before. You even said that you were not reading or studying the bible as you should be. Has that changed??

I agree in that this is not the place to find the only answers, you must find a solid Minister and study with the Bible. Different views, even ones that you may not agree with, help in understanding the Bible. Helps to spread the word with knowing how others think.

Just because a believer may not be mature in there understanding does not mean they are misleading others or not know there 'stuff', that it why most Bible Studys are groups of people with various levels of knowledge and understanding.

Sometimes the most knowledge person can get bogged down with facts and quotes, but a new believer may revive there knowledge in that they can see it from a fresh perspective. Vice versa, a new believer may be reading too much into a verse and a Mature believer can simplify it.

 

[J. Jump]

Apparently, sin lies in the soul, not the spirit.

Where is your evidence of this? We are dead and trespasses and sin. It is our spirits that are dead.