Facts... you're funny!
The fact is that inonclast already posted several verses that clearly show that true Israel is not "genetic" Israel.
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Out Of Zion Shall Go Forth The Law, And The Word Of The Lord From Jerusalem
- Thread starter beameup
- Start date
Facts... you're funny!
The fact is that inonclast already posted several verses that clearly show that true Israel is not "genetic" Israel.
beameup
Member
hahahahahahahahaha
iconoclast says that they were Jews, but that it was before 70AD.
This, of course, would mean that Revelation MUST be "early dated".
The "Catholic position" since Origen would be to say that Revelation is purely "symbolic".
That's a quick and dirty way to "dismiss" the work of the Holy Spirit.
So your position is Revelation is not symbolic?
The symbolism in Revelation represents something literal not allegorical or just spiritual.
yes it does represent literal truth from the symbols.The question becomes....do the literal truths come from the bible, or newspaper clippings:thumbs::thumbs:
The early church had many jews in it.I never saw that as funny-
James 1
King James Version (KJV)
1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations
maybe the joke is the dispensational hermenutic???
beameup
Member
[The angel] cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea
Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, untill we have sealed the servants of our God
in their foreheads. And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed [144,000]
an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. Rev 7:1-4
Was this doctrine of "sealing" in the forhead a doctrine of the early church?
Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, untill we have sealed the servants of our God
in their foreheads. And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed [144,000]
an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. Rev 7:1-4
Was this doctrine of "sealing" in the forhead a doctrine of the early church?
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Did you read the responses ...or were you to busy trying to laugh at them?
Sealing in the forehead was already in Ezekiel 9....Is that early enough for you?
9 He cried also in mine ears with a loud voice, saying, Cause them that have charge over the city to draw near, even every man with his destroying weapon in his hand.
2 And, behold, six men came from the way of the higher gate, which lieth toward the north, and every man a slaughter weapon in his hand; and one man among them was clothed with linen, with a writer's inkhorn by his side: and they went in, and stood beside the brasen altar.
3 And the glory of the God of Israel was gone up from the cherub, whereupon he was, to the threshold of the house. And he called to the man clothed with linen, which had the writer's inkhorn by his side;
4 And the Lord said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.
5 And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity:
6 Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house.
7 And he said unto them, Defile the house, and fill the courts with the slain: go ye forth. And they went forth, and slew in the city.
8 And it came to pass, while they were slaying them, and I was left, that I fell upon my face, and cried, and said, Ah Lord God! wilt thou destroy all the residue of Israel in thy pouring out of thy fury upon Jerusalem?
9 Then said he unto me, The iniquity of the house of Israel and Judah is exceeding great, and the land is full of blood, and the city full of perverseness: for they say, The Lord hath forsaken the earth, and the Lord seeth not.
10 And as for me also, mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity, but I will recompense their way upon their head.
11 And, behold, the man clothed with linen, which had the inkhorn by his side, reported the matter, saying, I have done as thou hast commanded me.
Do you think it was a computer chip, or barcode scanner in Ezekiel 9:laugh: The early church had ezekiel 9
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beameup
Member
So you are saying that Christians were divided according to Tribes in the
Chruch in Jerusalem and Judea and marked on the forhead for protection?
Yes....among the nation when Jesus walked the earth....he spoke of judgement to come upon
A remnant was kept preserved by God...I believe the number is a symbolic number for the fullness of the remnant....{even if it was a literal number} it does not change the remnant of believing jews to which gentiles get added into.
In ezk 9 the believers who were marked were to spared when the judgement fell upon them....the same truth, that is.....the believers with the fathers mark are also preserved and spared.....remember...the reapers are the angels-
38 and the field is the world, and the good seed, these are the sons of the reign, and the darnel are the sons of the evil one,
39 and the enemy who sowed them is the devil, and the harvest is a full end of the age, and the reapers are messengers.
40 `As, then, the darnel is gathered up, and is burned with fire, so shall it be in the full end of this age,
41 the Son of Man shall send forth his messengers, and they shall gather up out of his kingdom all the stumbling-blocks, and those doing the unlawlessness
Even if you are not comfortable with these ideas....you can see that they also fit,and do so without going outside of scripture to seek answers. The mark in EZK9 was only visible to the angelic beings....
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beameup
Member
I don't have to "go outside scripture" - all scripture makes perfect sense to me when I apply the scriptural "template".
That "template" applied, every bit of scripture "falls into place" without convoluted gyrations.
I discovered this "template" quite on my own about 3 years ago without outside influence and with the help of the H.S.
The Holy Spirit is an "inside influence" but to my shock and amazement, mostly ignored by far too many Christians.
What I see in many is a form of Catholic Doctrine from the 4th Century. Why not just join the Catholic Church? :wavey:
Acts 11:26
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beameup
You can believe that if you wish . I notice however you failed to comment on the verses offered to you....how did your template overlook them.
"convoluted gyrations"....can you show one from the verses offered?
Only you have this knowledge then? is it available to us also? We cannot have the Spirit and see it different from you then? Are you infallible?
What does your Holy Spirit template tell you about this section of REV.9;
14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.
15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.
16 And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.
17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.
18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.
19 For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.
20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:
21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.
What leads you to this conclusion?
maybe you did not escape far enough from the JW false doctrine????
.
You can believe that if you wish . I notice however you failed to comment on the verses offered to you....how did your template overlook them.
"convoluted gyrations"....can you show one from the verses offered?
Only you have this knowledge then? is it available to us also? We cannot have the Spirit and see it different from you then? Are you infallible?
What does your Holy Spirit template tell you about this section of REV.9;
14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.
15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.
16 And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.
17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.
18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.
19 For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.
20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:
21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.
What leads you to this conclusion?
maybe you did not escape far enough from the JW false doctrine????
beameup
beamup,
What does your template say about these verses;
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
beamup,
What does your template say about these verses;
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Icon
Every heresy is started by someone who uses their own "template" to interpret Scripture. Last I heard beameup's template is that there are two different Gospels, a doctrine that the Apostle Paul says is accursed. Perhaps he has discovered a different template.
beameup
Member
John's Gospel rightly teaches the Gospel of Grace, but then again it was written 20 years after the destruction of the Temple.
Following the Destruction of the Temple in 70AD there remained no purpose in preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom.
However, if you wait a little longer, the Temple will be rebuilt and Matthew ch. 24 will be literally fulfilled.
Maybe you didn't get the memo :laugh:
As Paul stated, to him was revealed the Mystery of the Gospel of Grace by faith, without works of any kind.
Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel Rom 16:25a
In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. Rom 2:16
Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel: 2 Tim 2:8
Oh look! Here is another "mystery" revealed to Paul:
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits;
that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. Romans 11:25
Following the Destruction of the Temple in 70AD there remained no purpose in preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom.
However, if you wait a little longer, the Temple will be rebuilt and Matthew ch. 24 will be literally fulfilled.
Maybe you didn't get the memo :laugh:
As Paul stated, to him was revealed the Mystery of the Gospel of Grace by faith, without works of any kind.
Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel Rom 16:25a
In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. Rom 2:16
Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel: 2 Tim 2:8
Oh look! Here is another "mystery" revealed to Paul:
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits;
that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. Romans 11:25
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Your posts are always solid brother...I trust all is well with you in the providence of God:thumbsup: