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I'm well aware of the many inner-denomination in the Baptist Denominations... I may be 17... but I'm aware of my surroundings
I won't hold that against you!Originally posted by Baptist Believer:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by UnashamedYouth:
I bet this is the wrong time to say that My Pastor is on the executive board of the SBC and that he stands STRONGLY behind Dr. Patterson's views?
No, that's too simplistic. A better way to put it is if you're not for Paige Patterson, then you're not for the so-called "conservative resurgence" and all the lies, meanness and ungodliness associated with that political takeover.
He got the SBC headed toward an IBF-style position -- except with a much stronger central control structure and only one quarter of the civility in disputes. That's not really the way the SBC used to be so it is not really very "conservative" historically and it certainly isn't a "resurgence".
When Christ returns, He will straighten all of us out.
I don't know if I should laugh or cry. This is one of the most human-centered, pastor-worship statements that I have ever heard. Hey, here is a thought, how about following Jesus instead of someone more interested in power and control</font>[/QUOTE]Laugh and cry away... I'm sure God is just as amused and hurt by this as you
You just asked me one so I guess it's possible.
Ah, the code words... I'm not going to use your code words because they may have a different meaning to you than me. Let me say this:
My views have changed a fair amount during the last 18 years. I used to be very much against women in vocational ministry because I honestly thought the Bible taught that view. It was reinforced when I a woman came to my college to preach on why women should be preachers. She was so incredibly hostile to men and the apostle Paul that I *knew* I was right. (For the record, some of the faculty supported women in ministry and they were aghast at her "performance".)
My doctrine does not easily compress into nut-sized portions, but I have a great appreciation for the statement made by Will Campbell about his beliefs:
Well I am not on staff at the church and I can make no claims for the theology of the church. We believe along the lines of the 1963 BF&M and have some liberal members and some more fundamental members. We get along as a family of God in unity with great diversity. Probably the most divisive thing we do that bothers some of the more "conservative" local churches is that women can serve as deacons in our church. (NOTE: Deacons at our church are servants, not a board of elders.) Since we have a New Testament example of Phoebe as a deacon, why should we not ask women to participate in the serving ministry of the church?
I'm not sure what you are asking specifics for... It is widely known (never a secret) that Patterson campaigned in the churches. I think Judge Pressler's book "A Hill on Which to Die" might detail some of it.
I never said I worshiped Dr. Patterson. I said he was a great guy who I look up to and respect.
I'm not sure what you are asking specifics for... It is widely known (never a secret) that Patterson campaigned in the churches. I think Judge Pressler's book "A Hill on Which to Die" might detail some of it.
Send them my way... I have a good friend of Dr. Patterson's as my pastor... he can find out the truth real quick....</font>[/QUOTE]Um, okay. Let's deal with something really basic that doesn't even concern a person but a situation:
I think the reason some people see me as liberal in theology is that they pin a label of "liberal" on anyone who believes differently than they do so they won't have to pay attention to what the other person says. I don't use the code words (purposely) and I try to be biblical about women in ministry and people don't like it.
I agree. That's an excellent position.
True. I agree.
Have you actually read Earle Ellis's writing on Paul and women or a you just assuming you know what it means or that it is wrong? His writing has been criticized by those of a more liberal persuasion because it deals only with what the scripture actually says instead of taking into account the contemporary situation. As I pointed out before, Earle Ellis was theologically correct enough to teach at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary until just about two years ago (he retired) and the book I mentioned was published in 1989 -- five years before Southwestern Seminary was place under hard-line "conservative resurgence" control. He stayed on with the "conservative resurgence" crowd and Ken Hemphill without a problem. Why is it when I say that he represents my view on the issue that I am suddenly a "liberal"?
Send them my way... I have a good friend of Dr. Patterson's as my pastor... he can find out the truth real quick....</font>[/QUOTE]Um, okay. Let's deal with something really basic that doesn't even concern a person but a situation:
My guess is that he would be generally supportive of firing Dilday. I have no idea if he would approve of the way it was done or would condone the lies surrounding the event. (Of course he may not realize that lies were told, so we all need to be careful about judging that aspect.)
I don't know what to make of this statement. Does he think it is funny that someone is opposed to what is called the "conservative resurgence" or something else?
To get a better idea of what is going on at the "Baptist" seminary in Richmond and what was very likely going on at Southeastern, follow these links to Baptist Press articles:Originally posted by BibleboyII:
You claim that Southeastern was never liberal. The test for that claim would be to examine the doctrines that are being taught at the new "Baptist" seminary in Richmond, VA, which is where the majority of former Southeastern Professors went following the arrival of Dr. Patterson as President. By the way, they all left of their own accord. No former Southeastern Professor was fired by Dr. Patterson. Anyway, what are the students in Richmond being taught about the innerrantcy of Scriputre, the Deity of Christ, the miracles of the Bible, the sin of homosexuality, etc.? Also, how would you explain the unholy activities and false teachings that were once openly tolerated at Southeastern, which I outlined above, and the amonut of sinful material that was found hidden in some of the campus buildings. Please don't respond with a "Conservative Conspiracy Theory."
Actually, it was the 1970s.