Palestine

[pinoybaptist]

Yes...let's give statehood to terrorists. We need to pull out of the UN

agree, and while we're at it, we need to kick the UN out of the US.

 

[pinoybaptist]

I am. That land, and so much more, belongs to Israel as God has promised.

I don't subscribe to that eschatology (used to). I side with Israel now only because I think she is America's only true ally in that part of the world (political reasons) and to spite terrorists and their fellow-travelers here in the US.
IOW, if America's enemies and those who would do harm to Americans hate somebody, that somebody is my friend.

 

[kyredneck]

He that passeth by, and vexeth himself with strife belonging not to him, Is like one that taketh a dog by the ears. Pr 26:17

... if America's enemies and those who would do harm to Americans hate somebody, that somebody is my friend.

Do you subscribe to the neocon notion it's not that these extremists disagree with our policies, but rather they “hate our freedoms”? Do you believe that it's that simple?

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=1605531#post1605531

 

[kyredneck]

Don't know who actually wrote this, but it articulates what I consider to be much truth in the matter:

What caused the September 11 attacks?

"It is due 100% in part to a failed foreign policy in the middle east. The US has a lopsided, pro Israel point of view and refuses to listen to any other viewpoint over there. By ignoring the Palestinians for 60 years and their plight of being not only homeless but brutalized and treated like second class citizens, they have petitioned the world community for years to lend a sympathetic ear to their cause. Their tragedy has played out time and time again and will forever. Look at the Catholics of Northern Ireland. Their story is almost parrelelll to that of the Palestinians. They too were treated like second class citizens for years by an another class that had our country's ear. We refused to listen to their pleas for justice until the IRA started blowing up buses in downtown London. Keep in mind that these Irish Catholics were good peace loving people who asked for fairness but were ignored because England had our ear and so, we looked the other way. Well, Israel has our ear now and because we did look away, the good peace loving Palestinians also were forced to spill blood to bring attention to their cause. Was our reasoning behind the revolution of 1776 much different? Let's be clear: They are not jealous of us. They do not hate freedom. It wasn't a conspiracy of the Bush administration. It was a matter of basic human rights being trampled on by Israel, our friend in the middle east. Some friend. So there you have it. Next time someone asks you why we were attacked on 911, and mind you the answers you will get are shockingly stupid, you now know that it was a failed foreign policy. Honestly, if you think about it, the USA really doesn't even have a foreign policy in the middle east, we basically do that Israel tells us to do. History is going to be on the Arab world side of this argument once its all over. I have no agenda in writing this reason "why" 911 happened. This is the truth."

"we basically do that Israel tells us to do"

 

[pinoybaptist]

He that passeth by, and vexeth himself with strife belonging not to him, Is like one that taketh a dog by the ears. Pr 26:17



Do you subscribe to the neocon notion it's not that these extremists disagree with our policies, but rather they “hate our freedoms”? Do you believe that it's that simple?

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=1605531#post1605531

no, I don't.
but, right now, what we have is an America that is slowly being Islam-ized (lol. Webster'd be pulling his hair on that one), and it's something that we need to realize.
Call it naivette, but that's how I see what's happening, and maybe the Palestinians are right, maybe they're wrong, I don't particularly care which.
What I care about is for America not to wake up one morning and find that every religion is free for ridicule except Islam, and every religion is barred from its right to free speech, except Islam.
I have no hatred for Palestinians, or Muslims, except where their interests clash with America's.
You know I don't subscribe to being allied with Israel because "he who blesses Israel will be blessed by God, and he who doesn't will be cursed by God".
All I know is Americans are getting killed, America is being attacked, and American society is being corrupted, and the current president is doing nothing about it.
Maybe because he's on their side ?

 

[kyredneck]

no, I don't.
but, right now, what we have is an America that is slowly being Islam-ized (lol. Webster'd be pulling his hair on that one), and it's something that we need to realize.
Call it naivette, but that's how I see what's happening, and maybe the Palestinians are right, maybe they're wrong, I don't particularly care which.
What I care about is for America not to wake up one morning and find that every religion is free for ridicule except Islam, and every religion is barred from its right to free speech, except Islam.
I have no hatred for Palestinians, or Muslims, except where their interests clash with America's.
You know I don't subscribe to being allied with Israel because "he who blesses Israel will be blessed by God, and he who doesn't will be cursed by God".
All I know is Americans are getting killed, America is being attacked, and American society is being corrupted, and the current president is doing nothing about it.
Maybe because he's on their side ?

Sorry Brother, but no 'Islamization' goin on in my neck of the woods. Lots of socialistic federal big govnt regs being imposed though, and Muslims have zilch to do with that. Socialism is a very real threat to our freedoms, and, Muslims have nothing to do with that.

A few gas stations and motels ran by Pakistanis and Iranians does not compute to 'Islamization' with me. They just want to improve their lot just like the rest of us,

Perhaps recollections from your homeland are influencing your perception of things? Maybe? I've read of 'Muslim' insurgencies in the Phillipines before.

 

[Herald]

Sorry Brother, but no 'Islamization' goin on in my neck of the woods. Lots of socialistic federal big govnt regs being imposed though, and Muslims have zilch to do with that. Socialism is a very real threat to our freedoms, and, Muslims have nothing to do with that.

A few gas stations and motels ran by Pakistanis and Iranians does not compute to 'Islamization' with me. They just want to improve their lot just like the rest of us,

Perhaps recollections from your homeland are influencing your perception of things? Maybe? I've read of 'Muslim' insurgencies in the Phillipines before.

I was in Arlington, VA this morning and the number of Muslim women in full burkas shocked me. I thought I was in Tehran!

 

[saturneptune]

Common sense goes a long way, and does not even require Scripture. Who is a democracy in the Middle East, and believes in liberty, freedom, individual rights, and the dignity of life? Is it Israel or Saudia Arabia, Iraq, Iran, Syria, Eygpt, Jordan, Oman, and Yemen? If the United States was threatened with invasion, who would you trust to come to our aid as an ally, Israel or the nut case Muslim states who are friends as long as you give handouts of military weaponry? If anyone on this board thinks Pakistan is any better ally, take away their foreign aid. Also, everyone forgets the ten or so Muslim nations that used to be a part of the Soviet Union.

Allies must have something in common. Liberty, freedom, civil rights, the dignity of life, respect for our fellow man are not compatible with the Muslim religion or nations. When the United States deteriorates to a certain level, they would as soon wipe you and your families out as look at you.

We have given Muslim nations billions, no trillions of dollars. We have blown them up then rebuilt them. Thousands of American lives have been sacrificed for the ill conceived notion that everyone is the Middle East is going to go arm in arm down the yellow brick road in peace to the Land of Oz.

The first mistake we made is establishing diplomatic ties with barbarians. The second mistake we made was allow American businesses to enrich those countries. This was followed by giving them free military hardware, and advanced at that. Then, we ask the American people to pay billions of dollars to these savages to maintain the "peace" with Israel.

I can count on one or two hands the number of reliable allies we have: Israel, Australia, United Kingdom, Spain, Portugal, New Zealand, Poland, France, Canada, and maybe some of the former Eastern European countries.

 

[kyredneck]

Please, save the common sense sermon for someone else, 'Mr nuke em' exterminate em' all'.

Enough said.

 

[Bob Alkire]

Common sense goes a long way, and does not even require Scripture. Who is a democracy in the Middle East, and believes in liberty, freedom, individual rights, and the dignity of life? Is it Israel or Saudia Arabia, Iraq, Iran, Syria, Eygpt, Jordan, Oman, and Yemen? If the United States was threatened with invasion, who would you trust to come to our aid as an ally, Israel or the nut case Muslim states who are friends as long as you give handouts of military weaponry? If anyone on this board thinks Pakistan is any better ally, take away their foreign aid. Also, everyone forgets the ten or so Muslim nations that used to be a part of the Soviet Union.

Allies must have something in common. Liberty, freedom, civil rights, the dignity of life, respect for our fellow man are not compatible with the Muslim religion or nations. When the United States deteriorates to a certain level, they would as soon wipe you and your families out as look at you.

We have given Muslim nations billions, no trillions of dollars. We have blown them up then rebuilt them. Thousands of American lives have been sacrificed for the ill conceived notion that everyone is the Middle East is going to go arm in arm down the yellow brick road in peace to the Land of Oz.

The first mistake we made is establishing diplomatic ties with barbarians. The second mistake we made was allow American businesses to enrich those countries. This was followed by giving them free military hardware, and advanced at that. Then, we ask the American people to pay billions of dollars to these savages to maintain the "peace" with Israel.

I can count on one or two hands the number of reliable allies we have: Israel, Australia, United Kingdom, Spain, Portugal, New Zealand, Poland, France, Canada, and maybe some of the former Eastern European countries.

Well said!!! Spend a couple years over there and see first hand. The Muslim tread their own people at time like barbarians and ones who disagree with them and to them Israel's people are the devel so there is much care for them.

 

[LadyEagle]

Another great post, SN. Nice common sense, too. :flower:

 

[saturneptune]

Please, save the common sense sermon for someone else, 'Mr nuke em' exterminate em' all'.

Enough said.

You are right. Enough was said in your first post to last one a life time. Common sense is obviously lacking from anyone's catagory that cannot see the threat. Please change your state of residence. It is embarrassing.

 

[saturneptune]

Thank you Bob and Lady Eagle.

 

[ktn4eg]

The UN just voted in favor of palestinian statehood.

Having been basically "in & out of it" for the past several days due to having to nurse a flu bug that has decided to grace its presence in these here parts, this is my first attempt to add my $0.02 to this fun-filled banter:

Why am I not surprised??!!?? :tongue3:
-------------------------------------------------

Can't remember from who it was that I first heard this observation re: 09/11/2001, but it went something like this:

You know, those terrorists could have just as easily taken over another jet and aimed it at Manhattan. It wouldn't have taken that much more jet fuel to fly just a wee bit north of the WTC and, say, not much more than a mile or so eastward and aim that jet's nose right into the UN complex.

Know why they didn't even consider doing so?

They knew where their friends were! :tonofbricks:

 

[Bob Alkire]

You know, those terrorists could have just as easily taken over another jet and aimed it at Manhattan. It wouldn't have taken that much more jet fuel to fly just a wee bit north of the WTC and, say, not much more than a mile or so eastward and aim that jet's nose right into the UN complex.

Know why they didn't even consider doing so?

They knew where their friends were! :tonofbricks:

I too believe they know who their friends are.

 

[pinoybaptist]

Sorry Brother, but no 'Islamization' goin on in my neck of the woods. Lots of socialistic federal big govnt regs being imposed though, and Muslims have zilch to do with that. Socialism is a very real threat to our freedoms, and, Muslims have nothing to do with that.

A few gas stations and motels ran by Pakistanis and Iranians does not compute to 'Islamization' with me. They just want to improve their lot just like the rest of us,

Perhaps recollections from your homeland are influencing your perception of things? Maybe? I've read of 'Muslim' insurgencies in the Phillipines before.

Bro, the "Islamization" I am talking about goes beyond them owning businesses here.
You'll understand when you wake up and find that Sharia has been incorporated into our judicial system's decisions, either in full, or in part.
You'll know when you see Dearborn, Michigan being duplicated in other parts of this country.
I got no beef with them coming to this country.
I do have a problem when they try to impose their culture in ours, or act as if their ways fit totally with ours, like it's none of our business if they murder their wives or daughters because honor killing is just normal for them.
In one way you're right about my experiences in the Philippines still ringing in my ears, so to speak.
My birth district in Manila used to be clean and orderly.
Not to say the crime rate was nil.
Not anymore.
When "they" came, well, there are lots of Filipinos, I suppose, in Kentucky.
Some of them should be able to say something.
These people have a way of keeping quiet and going along with the flow, until they grow in numbers in an area, then they get all different.

 

[LadyEagle]

From the Left Huffington Post: 8 Reasons Leftists should be Pro-Israel

Here, then, are 8 reasons Leftists should be Pro-Israel (or, at least, Pro-Peace rather than Anti-Israel):

1. Human Rights. The Left fights for human rights in the world. Even if one thinks Israel or its soldiers guilty of human rights violations (and I am not willing at the outset to grant this point), there is no international or historical comparison that could reasonably rank Israel among the worst criminals of the world or of history. Whether we look at the scale of the conflict, the numbers of lives lost, or the treatment of the press or of dissidents, there are far too many examples of bloodshed and persecution dwarfing anything done by Israel against the Palestinians over the last four decades since the Six Day War, when Israel was attacked by its neighbors. Even Arab treatment of Palestinians, such as in Jordan's Black September massacre, caused thousands of deaths, possibly more in 10 days than in four decades of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. And how can we compare Israel to Mugabe's Zimbabwe, or the Chinese crackdown on Tibet and Tianneman? Or the disappearances and death squads of Latin America Square or the killing fields of Pol Pot? Let alone the genocide pursued by Hitler or Stalin's murderous reign? Let us be clear: genocide is the attempt to exterminate an entire people and culture; this is not what has happened to the Palestinians, and it is not the goal of Israeli policy. By contrast, the explicit aim of Hamas is to eliminate Israel. So, if we support human rights and oppose persecution, ought we not first to focus our efforts on the places where we find the worst situations? Can anyone rationally claim that among these places, let alone the most horrendous of all, is a small nation on the eastern coast of the Mediterranean Sea?

<Reasons 2-7 snipped, see link for the rest>


8. Progress. We want movement on Palestinian-Israeli and Arab-Israeli peacemaking. Yet, demonizing Israel, singling it out, as is done at the UN and on college campuses will do little to advance peace. We all know, have all known for decades the basic outlines of a peace settlement. The Israelis have been prepared for this and have prepared their citizens. The Left should be pressuring Palestinians to accept peace and to stop teaching their children that Jews are monsters after their blood. This sort of pressure might bring some progress.

It was long ago time for Leftists to tear down the poster that features Israel as the demon-child of human rights abuse and repression. It is time for Leftists to become outraged not over Israel, but over the distortions and demonization of Israel on college campuses and at the United Nations and throughout the media and politics. It is time for Leftists to reject the treatment of Israel as a pariah, or Jews as bloodthirsty murderers, and time instead to welcome Israel into the community of nations as a full member, subject to the same criticism and praise as any other nation.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alan-krinsky/8-reasons-leftists-should_b_653432.html

More common sense.

 

[OldRegular]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alan-krinsky/8-reasons-leftists-should_b_653432.html

More common sense.

Surely you jest!:laugh: Common sense from a leftist? Any sense at all from a leftist?

 

[OldRegular]

Bro, the "Islamization" I am talking about goes beyond them owning businesses here.
You'll understand when you wake up and find that Sharia has been incorporated into our judicial system's decisions, either in full, or in part.
You'll know when you see Dearborn, Michigan being duplicated in other parts of this country.
I got no beef with them coming to this country.
I do have a problem when they try to impose their culture in ours, or act as if their ways fit totally with ours, like it's none of our business if they murder their wives or daughters because honor killing is just normal for them.
In one way you're right about my experiences in the Philippines still ringing in my ears, so to speak.
My birth district in Manila used to be clean and orderly.
Not to say the crime rate was nil.
Not anymore.
When "they" came, well, there are lots of Filipinos, I suppose, in Kentucky.
Some of them should be able to say something.
These people have a way of keeping quiet and going along with the flow, until they grow in numbers in an area, then they get all different.

If I had my way I would send them all back.

I have posted something similar to the following but it is worth the read! I have inserted my remarks where appropriate.

I would defend anyone’s right to believe in Islam. The question is: How could one truly practice Islam without declaring Jihad on others? After a Muslim has won the “internal struggle” or Jihad within himself, the next step is to wage it against all others. To refrain from that part of Jihad is to risk the accusation of being a slacker or pseudo-Muslim. From the first stage to the last, all such effort constitutes “working towards the Prophet and Allah.”
“When politically correct and culturally diverse societies agreed to ‘the reasonable’ Muslims demands for their ‘religious rights,’ they also get the other components under the table. Here’s how it works (percentages source: CIA: The World Fact Book, 2007).

*** One percent ***
“As long as the Muslim population remains around 1% of any given country it will be regarded as a peace-loving minority and not as a threat to anyone….”

Here is where it becomes interesting. Note throughout the exponential scale of Islamic influence as the percentage of Muslim population per country increases. Comments in square brackets are my corrective interjections.

United States: 1.0
Australia: 1.5
Canada: 1.9
China: 1.0-2.0
Italy: 1.5
Norway: 1.8

In Minnesota some Universities have installed foot washing stations to accommodate Muslims prior to their prayers to the pagan god they worship. They could have installed sand boxes instead! Can you imagine what would happen if they made accommodation for Christians?

*** Two to three percent ***
“At 2% and 3% they [Muslims] begin to proselytize from other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups with major recruiting from the jails and among street gangs.”

Denmark: 2.0
Germany: 3.7
United Kingdom: 2.7
Spain: 4.0
Italy: 4.6

This is already happening in the prisons in this country.

*** Five percent and over ***
“From 5% on they [Muslims] exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their percentage of the population. They will push for the introduction of halal (“clean” by Islamic standards) food, thereby securing food preparation jobs for Muslims. They will increase pressure on supermarket chains to feature it on their shelves – along with threats for failure to comply (United States).”

France: 8.0
Philippines: 5.0
Sweden: 5.0
Switzerland: 4.3
The Netherlands: 5.5
Trinidad & Tobago: 5.8

“At this point, they [Muslims] will work to get the ruling government to allow them to rule themselves under Sharia, or Islamic law. The ultimate goal of Islam is not to convert the world but to establish Sharia law over the entire world.

Already happening in the United States and they only constitute ~1% of the population.

*** Ten percent and over ***
“When Muslims reach 10% of the population, they will increase lawlessness as a means of complaint about their conditions (Paris – car burning). Any non-Muslim action that offends Islam will result in uprisings and threats (Amsterdam, Denmark – Mohammed cartoons, murder of Theo van Gogh).”

Guyana: 10.0
India: 13.4
Israel: 16.0
Kenya: 10.0
Russia: 10.0-15.0

The one anomaly in this set of statistics is Israel, which has not experienced uprisings and threats of violence. Its Arab or Muslim population enjoys equal political rights with Jewish Israelis. The suicide bombings and rocket attacks that have killed hundreds have been perpetrated by outsiders.

*** Twenty percent and over ***
“After reaching 20% [of a population] expect hair-trigger rioting, Jihad militia formations, sporadic killings and church and synagogue burning:

Ethiopia: 32.8

*** Forty percent and over ***
“After 40% you will find widespread massacres, chronic terror attacks and ongoing militia warfare:”

Bosnia: 40.0
Chad: 53.1
Lebanon: 59.7

*** Sixty percent and over ***
“From 60% you may expect unfettered persecution of non-believers and other religions, sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of Sharia Law as a weapon and jizya, the tax placed on [conquered] infidels:”

Albania: 70.0
Malaysia: 60.4
Qatar: 77.5
Sudan: 70.0

*** Eighty percent and over ***
“After 80%, expect state-run ethnic cleansing and genocide:”

Bangladesh: 83.0
Egypt: 90.0
Gaza: 98.7
Indonesia: 86.1
Iran: 98.0
Iraq: 97.0
Jordan: 92.0
Morocco: 98.7
Pakistan: 97.0
Palestine: 99.0
Syria: 90.0
Tajikistan: 90.0
Turkey: 99.8
United Arab Emirates: 96.0

I question the inclusion of “Palestine” in this set. “Palestine” simply means space occupied by stateless “Palestinians” in Gaza and the West Bank, and is the name of the state which Islamists wish to replace Israel, once it is destroyed. Turkey, after decades of having a secular, non-religious government, is beginning to turn “religious,” and seems to be yearning for the kind of Muslim government that cleansed the country in 1915 of non-Muslim Armenians in a genocide that predates the Holocaust.

*** One Hundred percent ***
“100% will usher in the peace of ‘Dar-es-Salaam’ – the Islamic House of Peace’ [more correctly, dar-al-Islam, or Land of Islam]. There is supposed to be peace because everybody is a Muslim.”

Afghanistan: 100.0
Saudi Arabia: 100.0
Somalia: 100.0
Yemen: 99.9

“Of course, that’s not the case. To satisfy their blood lust, Muslims then start killing each other for a variety of reasons.
“‘Before I was nine I had learned the basic canon of Arab life. It was me against my brother; me and my brother against our father; my family against my cousins and the clan; the clan against the tribe; and the tribe against the world and all of us against the infidel.’ Leon Uris, The Haj.

“It is good to remember that in many, many countries, such as France, the Muslim populations are centered around ghettos based on their ethnicity. Muslims do not integrate into the community at large. Therefore, they exercise more power than their national average would indicate.”

“Adapted from Dr. Peter Hammond’s book, Slavery, Terrorism and Islam: The Historical Roots and Contemporary Threat.”

http://balaamsarse.wordpress.com/20...ifests-based-on-percentage-muslim-population/

 

[kyredneck]

OR, pinoy, read:

The Islamophobia Excuse

"Promoting fear of Shariah law is essentially a red herring. There are more than 50 predominantly Muslim countries in the world, and, while most have elements of Shariah in their civil and family law, only two have it as their criminal codes. They are Saudi Arabia and Iran, one a close ally of the United States and the West and the other currently playing the cameo role of a threat to the entire world, to borrow a phrase from the eminent Benjamin Netanyahu, prime minister of Israel. The countries that do not have Shariah as their criminal codes have modeled their laws on European and American models, some borrowing from Roman law and others from British common law."

Pinoy, those in Dearborn 'protesting the 1st ammendment' at least are OVERT in their desire to implement 'blaspemy laws' against Islam. IMO, you should be much more concerned with the 'hate speech laws' the ADL has promoted for years now, those are FAR more apt to become reality than Islamic 'blasphemy laws', the two are, in essence, the same.