Paris Burning: PC Media Blackout?

[church mouse guy]

Originally posted by C4K:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by LadyEagle:
Has the European Muslim jihad begun? The violence has spread to two cities in Germany now. So, France, Denmark, and Germany are being burned.

Saw some news about Belgian riots, but not Denmark and Germany burning - would like to see more, can you point us to a link please? </font>[/QUOTE]CNN said that some cars were torched in Berlin:

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/11/07/europe.fears.ap/index.html?section=cnn_latest

 

[church mouse guy]

Here is a link to an article on the website Jihad Watch for November 3 that shows that there is a problem in Denmark of all places:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1513137/posts?page=12

 

[LadyEagle]

So that's four European nations burning all at once: Denmark, Belgium, Germany, France....

Yes, I would be inclined to say the European jihad has begun.

No doubt, ours will be coming soon.

And, just like in the days of Thomas Jefferson, the Muslim pirates are at it again, this time attacking a Carnival Cruise Ship 100 miles off the coast of Somalia, even firing a RPG at the ship. There must have been some Christians on board praying because they were able to outrun and outmaneuver the Muslim pirates....this time. And I've no doubt that if they had overtaken the cruise vessel, there would have been beheadings in the name of allah. Pretty sick...all of it.

 

[Bunyon]

"One of the points which seems to have been missed here is poverty. The arrondissements where the rioters live are some of the most deprived slums in France. Unemployment is endemic. Now, that is not to excuse the rioters but it's no coincidence that you rarely see middle-class people with jobs rioting. Give a young man a job, and he is far less likely to have the energy or time to riot, he will have "far more to lose and he will feel more integrated into society as a whole. Leave him unemployed and he will have nothing to lose by rioting, plenty of time and energy with which to do it, and will feel marginalised and excluded from society; in such circumstances he is much more likely also to turn to his religion and ethnicity as a 'badge' of his belonging, over and against the culture of the country in which he lives. "---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

yeah, that is really appealing. In immigrant comes to a new country, and then says where is my blank blank Job, and then starts riots because he did not find the dream he imagined. Send em back to where they came from if they don't like it? That will get their attention.

 

[Matt Black]

Er...most of them were born in France. The slums ARE where they come from.

There is a great deal of similarity between these rioters and the 'Derry Young Hooligans' of the early 1970s - unemployed, disaffected, bored, alienated youths, marginalised by the dominant culture and with nothing better to do with their time and energy than go on a rampage, and nothing to lose by so doing. The British government tried the hard line by shooting the Hooligans (yeah, like that really worked ; IRA recruitment shot up dramatically after Bloody Sunday and other such incidents, so let that be a lesson about how to turn rioters into terrorists overnight); in the end only engagement with and addressing the economic and social problems behind the unrest improved the situation.

The great French secular social experiment of separating religion from the government and society has failed and lies in flames this week. Unless the government does something urgently to address the underlying problems, things will only get worse.

 

[LadyEagle]

The great French secular social experiment of separating religion from the government and society has failed and lies in flames this week.

If that is true, then the US hasn't got a chance. We are told by some on this very board that there is a "wall" of separation between church and state. It should only be a matter of time before we go up in flames.

However, I disagree. It is Islam that fuels and fans the flames. Imams refer to OBL as a "great man." The goal of Islam is world domination by force if need be.

In addition, France has a welfare programs for the poor that surpasses any of those in the US and isn't it true that some of the London bombers were also born in London and lived on the London dole (welfare)? So poverty is not the real issue, only a diversion from the real cause and effect.

 

[Bunyon]

"Er...most of them were born in France. The slums ARE where they come from."------------------------------------------------------------------

So what you are saying is we got a bunch of 1st generation Frenchmen mixed in with their imegrant parents and other fresh imegrants. I don't see your point. It still appears to be a buch of imigrnts and their parents enjoying a very lucrative social state and whinning for more. The news said last night they were going to give scholarships and stuff now, but this mornning the situation is worse. Entitlements ER...payoffs, will only make things worse. Don't you know the people expected and demanded free bread and Rome fell?

 

[church mouse guy]

Matt, there is a great deal in common with these people and the ones who attacked London. They have burnt 9,000 cars since the first of the year I understand and some say that this has been going on in France on and off for several years and it has been kept quiet. The Police are afraid to go in, as they are in Denmark. I think that the French police should be backed up by the French army and that they should sweep these Arab quarters for illegal weapons and drugs and should use deadly force to bring this lawlessness to an end and establish regular police patrols.

 

[Bunyon]

When I was a paratrooper, my main mission was to extablish an airhead to serve as a stging point for an invasion. Just as the marines and army establishe beachheads for the same purpose. That is what these slums amount to. Beachheads for an invasion. Lafayette, where have you gone?

 

[Matt Black]

This is very much a specific French problem, arising from a specific French attitude and history.

You really have to go back to de Gaulle and the way that he reinvented French pride in itself as a nation, on the myth that it had freed itself (with some token help from the allies) in the war. So France heard a lot about de Gaulle liberating Paris (sic) and about the Resistance, and quietly forgot the Vichy.

Part of Gaullism was to hold on to the remnants of French empire, specifically Algeria, although paradoxically it was then de Gaulle who surrendered it after a bitter struggle for independence. So those North Africans aren't just their 'because their papers say so', they are there because their parents were born in what was left of the French Empire.

France has no truck with multiculturalism, liberte, fraternite egalite is supposed to be enough for everyone. But there isn't a real egalite. For example, muslim girls were banned from wearing headscarfs in schools, as religious symbols, but it was only large and ostentatious crosses that were banned, not the sort that every Catholic French girl gets at her first communion.

And, although it's been a good few years since I was there, the Parisian police in particular would harass North Africans, forever running sweeps on the Metro and stopping them and asking them for their papers. I never once got asked to show mine, yet I was a foreigner and they were French. From what the vox pops are saying, it hasn't changed.

Add in the banlieus, which are an effective shanty town ring around Paris, keeping the North Africans outside the peripherique unless they are wanted for work, add in Sarkozy calling them scum, and it's hardly surprising that they've finally had enough. Riots in the summer happen from time to time in large cities; when you get riots in November, particularly the sort of wet November we've been having in Europe, you've got a problem.


If you are black, brown or beige in France, you can't get most jobs, if you are lucky enough to get one, you have to work twice as hard as your white colleagues to prove yourself and your every error is seen as a sign of natural incompetence when the same errors are seen as a normal part of learning a new job for whites. Cabs don't stop for you. Police stop you all the time for no reason and ask for your papers as if you were a foreigner. Police treat you like rubbish when they stop you, often beating you. They don't apologize when they fail to find anything to charge you with, but tell you to watch your rear, because they'll get you next time. You see decent people swallowing complete rubbish served up by the police and the white society they protect every day and then one day it's enough, just another couple of dead kids--but it's enough--you're ready to kill the next cop who asks you to justify your existence and so is everyone you know. It really isn't about Islamism or any other ism, but you'll say you love Osama, if it seems to scare the ruling elite.

Well, who knows? It sounds very familiar to me. And here too, everyone ignores the plainly stated grievances of the rioters and comes up with all manner of whacked out explanations and solutions. "Ship them back to where they came from." "Clamp down on immigration." "Unleash the police." "If only we were really, really reactionary and oppressive, then these young men would be on our side--we can only fight Sharia by imposing Levitical law (or something harsher)." "How can these people be angry? They should be grateful for the life we so generously permit them to enjoy in our wonderful society!"

There's just no way it could come down to the predictable result of boxing people in to ghettos with 50% unemployment rates--five times the national rate--or policing them with a generous helping of brutality and racial abuse. It's just people who should be grateful, biting the hand that feeds them!

 

[LadyEagle]

It's just people who should be grateful, biting the hand that feeds them!

Absolutely! If they don't like it, go back and have a "better" life in Algeria. They refuse to blend in and assimilate, just like they do here in the USA. (Head scarves, for instance.) And if the French government has encouraged them not to assimilate into the country to which they migrated to, that is a major problem. Just like it is getting to be here in the USA. When in France, they should be grateful they're not living in the third world country they came from and that the government is happy to give them handouts, public housing, a free education, probably free health care, and whatever other perks they get from living off of the working class. They have a lot of idle time sitting around on the dole and have nothing better to do than whine and think of ways to promote their violent religion as a pox on the Western world/civilization. I feel sorry for the French people with a limp-wristed corrupt leader like Chirac, who thinks appeasement is going to solve the problem, and evidently doesn't think enough of his police force to call in the military for backup.

 

[Matt Black]

Actually, until 1962, the 'third world country' they (or more likely their parents and grandparents) were living in - Algeria - WAS a part of France. The French used to boast that Algiers and Oran were as French as Paris or Bordeaux; it was administered as a department along with the 83 in mainland France just across the Med. Many of the people there regarded themselves as French citizens - because they were. However, when they came to mainland France, they discovered that in fact they weren't regarded as French at all by the white European population.

 

[LadyEagle]

Well, maybe they should have tried to assimilate with the mainland, then.

 

[Bunyon]

"Cabs don't stop for you."------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you have burned up thousands of cars and proven a penchent for violence, then I can see cabs not stopping for you. It seems to me the folks come and refuse to join in and make a go of it and then get the cart before the horse and say we can't make it becasue they are not fair to us. Always excuses.

Matt, I suspect you are biased with a typical mulitcultureal mindset. And I doubt if things are as egregious as you say they are. But you provide a lot of great information. I appreaciante that.

 

[church mouse guy]

We are hearing here that the French welfare system is one of the best in the world and that the unemployed get everything free. The big lesson is that a nation can get too many Islamists in their population and that it can be trouble as some decide that they want to live in an Islamic society inside the invaded country. People here are saying that the French will give in and create an area that is not France but is Islamic inside France.

To me, this is the long predicted fear that France would follow after Spain. The irony is that France was alleged to be pro-Arab and not at all like the warlike USA. The message seems to have been lost in the struggle for power.

 

[Matt Black]

Originally posted by Bunyon:
"Cabs don't stop for you."------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you have burned up thousands of cars and proven a penchent for violence, then I can see cabs not stopping for you. It seems to me the folks come and refuse to join in and make a go of it and then get the cart before the horse and say we can't make it becasue they are not fair to us. Always excuses.

Matt, I suspect you are biased with a typical mulitcultureal mindset. And I doubt if things are as egregious as you say they are. But you provide a lot of great information. I appreaciante that.

Thanks for that. I should add that the cabs didn't stop before the riots started.

 

[church mouse guy]

It's the politics of fear set adrift on continental Europe.

 

[Matt Black]

Have any of the posters here actually visited the arrondissements concerned? Or Paris? Or even France?

 

[Bunyon]

"I should add that the cabs didn't stop before the riots started."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I doubt if the folks ritoting were good citizens and just sudenly began to riot. I imagine there have been problems before.

 

[carpro]

Originally posted by church mouse guy:
We are hearing here that the French welfare system is one of the best in the world and that the unemployed get everything free. The big lesson is that a nation can get too many Islamists in their population and that it can be trouble as some decide that they want to live in an Islamic society inside the invaded country. People here are saying that the French will give in and create an area that is not France but is Islamic inside France.

To me, this is the long predicted fear that France would follow after Spain. The irony is that France was alleged to be pro-Arab and not at all like the warlike USA. The message seems to have been lost in the struggle for power.

In support of your post:
Blame French Entitlement System for Rioting, Analyst Says

(CNSNews.com) - Don't blame the French rioting on immigration -- blame it on the French system of entitlements, writes one think-tank analyst. Diana Furchtgott-Roth, a senior fellow at the Hudson Institute, says France's generous entitlements, including free education, health care, and housing and food allowances, "attracts people who do not necessarily want to work." In France, as in many other European countries, the unemployment rate among foreign-born residents is higher than it is among the native-born, Furchtgott-Roth says. "In contrast, since immigrants to the United States receive few entitlements, they come to work. They work at jobs paying $5.15 an hour, frequently with no fringe benefits, and consider themselves better off than if they would have stayed home. For this reason, the U.S. unemployment rate for foreign-born is actually lower than that for the native-born," Furchtgott-Roth said. Other entitlement-rich European countries also are at risk of riots, she warns.