Part 2: OK... I still have these nagging questions:

[TCGreek]

So am I hearing you correctly? Are you saying that the blood of Christ covers the "after we are dead" consequences of our sins, but that the "earthly" consequences of our sins are not covered by the blood?

I find it amazing how you are willing to go to all lengths to teach about the afterlife and punishment of the believer.

 

[lbaker]

I have looked but have yet to hear an answer to the question concerning the "one" salvation.

Many hear have said at one time or another that we believe in more than one salvation. I guess ya'll only believe in only one?

TCGreek answered and says there is only one.

Since there is but ONE salvation spoken of in the Bible, please show me how this scripture agrees with your theology. That there is but one salvation, and that it is by grace, no works at all. (I believe this is true of the gospel of grace)

Here it is:

I Timothy 2: 13-15

13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

Okay, I'll chime in and vote for the "one salvation" ticket. The passage in I Timothy 2 isn't referring to being saved from our sins, saved for eternity, saved by the blood of Christ, etc. What Paul is saying is that if a woman continues in faith, charity, etc. she will be kept safe through the peril of childbirth, even though God told Eve that her pain and distress in childbirth would increase. (because of her transgression Paul mentions in v. 14)

Sorry to take so long in "voting" but work keeps interfering with keeping up with the BB.

Les

 

[James_Newman]

Okay, I'll chime in and vote for the "one salvation" ticket. The passage in I Timothy 2 isn't referring to being saved from our sins, saved for eternity, saved by the blood of Christ, etc. What Paul is saying is that if a woman continues in faith, charity, etc. she will be kept safe through the peril of childbirth, even though God told Eve that her pain and distress in childbirth would increase. (because of her transgression Paul mentions in v. 14)

Sorry to take so long in "voting" but work keeps interfering with keeping up with the BB.

Les

So, while I disagree with your interpretation, I understand you to be saying that there is more than one type of salvation in the bible? In this case, the physical salvation of a woman in childbearing?

 

[Hope of Glory]

If I had that world view, I think I'd be praying that God would kill me now.

There would be a lot more dents in the front of buses and trains.

It could be a tourist attraction!

"And now, ladies and gentlement, we are approaching the blind corner where hundreds of Christians annually fling themselves in front of buses, so cross your fingers and hope for a good show!"

 

[TCGreek]

Wow! I leave the room to go to town and I get behind on what's going on!

I have looked but have yet to hear an answer to the question concerning the "one" salvation.

Many hear have said at one time or another that we believe in more than one salvation. I guess ya'll only believe in only one?

TCGreek answered and says there is only one.

Since there is but ONE salvation spoken of in the Bible, please show me how this scripture agrees with your theology. That there is but one salvation, and that it is by grace, no works at all. (I believe this is true of the gospel of grace)

Here it is:

I Timothy 2: 13-15

13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

1. I've learned to think contextually about words.

2. We have to live with translations. I've heard all sorts of doctrine taught based on archaic expressions, where the preacher failed to go behind the word under consideration.

3. A word may have meant one thing at one time, but may have evolved to mean something else.

4. If 1 Tim 2 is teaching another way to God and to heaven because "saved" is used, then Jesus must have been mistaken in John 14:6. There's but one salvation in this respect.

 

[Hope of Glory]

Don't build a theology on a word that can be translated in many ways. Let context help you.

Hmm... When we say that, we're called heretics, so you must be a heretic as well!

 

[James_Newman]

3. A word may have meant one thing at one time, but may have evolved to mean something else.

4. If 1 Tim 2 is teaching another way to God and to heaven because "saved" is used, then Jesus must have been mistaken in John 14:6. There's but one salvation is this respect.

So obviously this word means something else. I don't think that lbaker's interpretation is the correct answer, would you like to take another stab at it?

 

[TCGreek]

Hmm... When we say that, we're called heretics, so you must be a heretic as well!

1. Hope of Glory, when we pay attention to words, it's only natural for us to make some of the same points.

2. But in the end, it's where you end up in your venture, that is really the issue.

 

[lbaker]

So, while I disagree with your interpretation, I understand you to be saying that there is more than one type of salvation in the bible? In this case, the physical salvation of a woman in childbearing?

Sure, and the point is...?

 

[npetreley]

Okay, I'll chime in and vote for the "one salvation" ticket. The passage in I Timothy 2 isn't referring to being saved from our sins, saved for eternity, saved by the blood of Christ, etc. What Paul is saying is that if a woman continues in faith, charity, etc. she will be kept safe through the peril of childbirth, even though God told Eve that her pain and distress in childbirth would increase. (because of her transgression Paul mentions in v. 14)

This is how I interpret the verse, too. If women could get saved (as in eternal life) through childbirth, that would contradict clear verses in the BIble to the contrary. It might also lead to overpopulation. (Just kidding about the latter.)

 

[Accountable]

Don't build a theology on a word that can be translated in many ways. Let context help you.

I couldn't have said it better myself! Yet some say there is but one salvation.
I see that though you did not answer the question, you would be in agreement that this salvation is not the same one experienced when one believes upon Christ?

And then there were two.

I wonder if there might be other examples of even more salvations?

 

[npetreley]

Sure, and the point is...?

The point is that they're going to start preaching 4 salvations and 4 gospels now. Spirit, soul, body, and healthy childbirth.

 

[James_Newman]

Sure, and the point is...?

The point is that we cannot just dogmatically insist that every time we see the word 'saved' it means eternal salvation by grace through faith alone. It should be obvious that if works are involved (ie continuing in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety) that it is talking about something else.

 

[TCGreek]

Okay, I'll chime in and vote for the "one salvation" ticket. The passage in I Timothy 2 isn't referring to being saved from our sins, saved for eternity, saved by the blood of Christ, etc. What Paul is saying is that if a woman continues in faith, charity, etc. she will be kept safe through the peril of childbirth, even though God told Eve that her pain and distress in childbirth would increase. (because of her transgression Paul mentions in v. 14)

Sorry to take so long in "voting" but work keeps interfering with keeping up with the BB.

Les

A smart interpretation, I must say. You're in good company.

 

[TCGreek]

This is how I interpret the verse, too. If women could get saved (as in eternal life) through childbirth, that would contradict clear verses in the BIble to the contrary. It might also lead to overpopulation. (Just kidding about the latter.)

I hope no one is holding out eternal life as a viable option, in this respect. But you never know...

 

[James_Newman]

A smart interpretation, I must say. You're in good company.

Then we must conclude that

a) Godly women never die in child-bearing.
b) All women who have children are very holy.

 

[Accountable]

Sure, and the point is...?

IBaker,

Thank you for your post,

The point we are trying to make is this.
There is salvation past, present, and future.

There are other terms used but we will try with these.

Some here will make a bold assestment by saying there is but one salvation.

There is but one spiritual salvation. Not by our deeds but by the death, burial, and resurection of Christ.

BUT this is not the only salvation mentioned, nor dealt with in scripture.

As you have pointed out, II Tim 2 doesn't deal with spiritual salvation. How can one continue to say there is only one salvation in scriptures when to this point in conversation we have seen at least two?

This is the point we are making. It is sad but those who hate the Kingdom teachings we proclaim have learned very well how to speak from both sides of their mouth. The message they relay is constantly changing.

One minute there is one salvation, another moment... who knows.

One minute we are the ones that believe in a God that punishes and doesn't love, another moment they argue that he does punish, and the World goes around, and around and around.

God bless.

 

[Accountable]

The point is that they're going to start preaching 4 salvations and 4 gospels now. Spirit, soul, body, and healthy childbirth.

You have yet to tell us hpw many you preach?

Does this verse speak of salvation of the spirit or have you added another salvation to your list of true doctrines?

Oops! All is going so fast, I missed your blog where you now admit of 2 salvations.

Now that you cannot debate truthfuly that there is one salvation mentioned and dealt with in scripture.......
Anymore you want to agree with before we go any farther?

 

[TCGreek]

Then we must conclude that

a) Godly women never die in child-bearing.
b) All women who have children are very holy.

And what has experience taught us?

 

[Accountable]

Then we must conclude that

a) Godly women never die in child-bearing.
b) All women who have children are very holy.

You beat me to it.