Who was the Man of Sin, and when did Jesus appear to destroy Him? Hint, at the same time of His second coming, yet to happen!
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Partial Preterism and Futurism Continued
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Now, please tell other Baptists that Jesus wasn't a 100% accurate prophet! Your above statement would be considered blasphemous in many circles!
Calling Jesus the antichrist is the most blasphemous. Daniel 9 is about the Messiah, nowhere is the antichrist mentioned. The prince who was to come was Titus and it was his people, his troops, that destroyed the temple against his orders, Fulfilled litrerally and to the letter. Have you ever noticed that the temple was destroyed and the person who did it was a prince of the Romans. Don't preach to us about literal fulfillments when you play fast and loose with Daniel's prophecy.
Can YOU prove any pret assertions?
I am not a preterist but I believe that they and futurism are wrong and both were began by the Jesuits.
The reformers, and Baptists knew who the man of sin was and Luther excommunicated him.
How would those in Jerusalem and Judea see that, when it was in the temple?1.) The beast will commit the AOD by entering the temple, setting up his statue in it, which the FP will supernaturally cause to speak, declare himself to be God, & demand that he & his statue be worshipped. Nero was never in Jerusalem, so he couldn'ta done those things.
esus said a tribulation is coming that will be the worst in history, and, if not cut short, NO flesh (man or animal) would survive. He also said that, IMMEDIATELY AFTER that trib, there'd be a great cosmological disturbance, during which He will return.
No he did't that is just another example of futurists misquoting scripture to support their views. Jesus said "such as" not worse than. There was no tribulation such ans that in AD 66-70. There was no tribulation such as that because It was the wrath of God on the Jews for putting their prince to death, It was the end of Temple worship. It was the end of the priesthood, because the record house which held the genealogies, was burnt to the ground. Those who had lately worn the sacred garments were cast naked in the street and their bodies trampled upon. (Josephus)
Matther 23.
- 34Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
- 35That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
- 36Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
- 37O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
- 38Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
In Matthew 24, they asked Jesus what would be the sign of His return.
Yes and Jesus said
- Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
The Great tribulation will affect the entire earth though, not just Israel, and the nazi Holocaust made what happened in AD 70 kook like boy scouts attacking them. Stalin killed 40 million, Mao his 75 million, and yet that AD 70 was worse than them?No he did't that is just another example of futurists misquoting scripture to support their views. Jesus said "such as" not worse than. There was no tribulation such ans that in AD 66-70. There was no tribulation such as that because It was the wrath of God on the Jews for putting their prince to death, It was the end of Temple worship. It was the end of the priesthood, because the record house which held the genealogies, was burnt to the ground. Those who had lately worn the sacred garments were cast naked in the street and their bodies trampled upon. (Josephus)
Matther 23.
- 34Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
- 35That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
- 36Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
- 37O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
- 38Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
There were some 8 months between Vaspasian's attack on jerusalem & the siege by Titus which finally conquered it. Thus, there was PLENTY of time between the sieges for people to flee. Now, we know Jesus' prophecies MUST come true EXACTLY AS WRITTEN in their original language, so that was NOT the final attack when the AOD will occur.
- Mark 13:3 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
- 14But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
- Luke 21 20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
- 21Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
Actually Jerusalem was surrounded by armies in AD 66 by Cestius. Josephus tells us that just as he was on the verge of taking the city, and the chief priests were about to open the gates, that he withdrew his troops "without a reason in the world." He then said that at that time many prominent citizens abandoned the city as rats abandon a ship that sinks. That was the time the Christians fled. "When you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies."
By the way Robycop i suggest you get a spelling checker,
Or perhaps you have and it is like this
Eye halve a spelling chequer It came with my pea sea
It plainly marques four my revue Miss steaks eye kin knot sea.
Eye strike a quay and type a word And weight four it two say
Weather eye am wrong oar write It shows me strait a weigh.
As soon as a mist ache is maid It nose bee fore two long
And eye can put the error rite Its really ever wrong.
Eye have run this poem threw it I am shore your pleased two no
Its letter perfect in it's weigh My chequer tolled me sew.
ain you are misquoting scripture and my post. Scripture doesn't say worse than but "such as"The Great tribulation will affect the entire earth though, not just Israel, and the nazi Holocaust made what happened in AD 70 kook like boy scouts attacking them. Stalin killed 40 million, Mao his 75 million, and yet that AD 70 was worse than them?
And where does the scripture say it will effect the entire earth? Or that the tribulation it 7 years?
Jesus said there'd be persecutions of Christians with decapitations, and those have sharply increased under ISIS.
Not as bad as the inquisition.
Both of those much worse than AD 70 were!Not as bad as the inquisition.
Revelation shows that it will affect entire Earth, and is the last week of Daniel , the remaining last week!ain you are misquoting scripture and my post. Scripture doesn't say worse than but "such as"
And where does the scripture say it will effect the entire earth? Or that the tribulation it 7 years?
The man of sin was/is part of the Roman Empire. He took the Place of the emperors, The emperors were a dynasty, continued in the popes, who is the present head of the Roman empire.Who was the Man of Sin, and when did Jesus appear to destroy Him? Hint, at the same time of His second coming, yet to happen!
While we are talking about prophecy, let us look at Daniel 2.
- 27Daniel answered in the presence of the king, and said, The secret which the king hath demanded cannot the wise men, the astrologers, the magicians, the soothsayers, shew unto the king;
- 28But there is a God in heaven that revealeth secrets, and maketh known to the king Nebuchadnezzar what shall be in the latter days. Thy dream, and the visions of thy head upon thy bed, are these;
- 29As for thee, O king, thy thoughts came into thy mind upon thy bed, what should come to pass hereafter: and he that revealeth secrets maketh known to thee what shall come to pass.
- 30But as for me, this secret is not revealed to me for any wisdom that I have more than any living, but for their sakes that shall make known the interpretation to the king, and that thou mightest know the thoughts of thy heart.
- 31Thou, O king, sawest, and behold a great image. This great image, whose brightness was excellent, stood before thee; and the form thereof was terrible.
- 32This image's head was of fine gold, his breast and his arms of silver, his belly and his thighs of brass,
- 33His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay.
- 34Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.
- 35Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.
- 36This is the dream; and we will tell the interpretation thereof before the king.
- 37Thou, O king, art a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory.
- 38And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold.
- 39And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth.
- 40And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.
- 41And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.
- 42And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.
- 43And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.
- 44And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
If a prophecy does not fit into that, it is false. Other prophecies add more details but they will all fit in with that.
Daniel 7 shows the same 4 kingdoms. but as different wild beasts, and ends with the saints taking the kingdom.
If your prophecies don't fit in there they are false.
'
Revelation shows that it will affect entire Earth, and is the last week of Daniel , the remaining last week!
Revelation shows that the GT in that book is on the church. The GT in the gospels is on the Jews by the Romans.
Revelation shows that it will affect entire Earth, and is the last week of Daniel , the remaining last week!
Well we take the prophecy in Daniel LITERALLY, unlike futurists who adulterate it. 70 weeks means a literal time period and not with a bit split off.
- 24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
I think somebody said you wouldn't find futurists before 1800.
Is that correct? as I can't find the post.
Is that correct? as I can't find the post.
prophecy70
Active Member
I think somebody said you wouldn't find futurists before 1800.
Is that correct? as I can't find the post.
That is correct, same with the complete idea of preterism, Im more of an idealist in revelations. I do believe much of it can be said about AD 70 but i also think it can be read in any date in any time. Most historical protestants thought the beast was the pope. I think each generation has its own beast. MANY DECEIVERS as the bible says.
I think the catholic church has a better understanding of the end times then protestants unfortunately.
Although they believe they are Gods kingdom on earth in the one true church, which i don't believe is right. They don't believe in millennialism which I do not either literally. Most protestant reformers were amillennialists Historicalists (believing revelations was from birth of christ to end of world) until the divide grew them farther apart in beliefs. Futurism as we know today didn't start until the 1800s With Darby.
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prophecy70
Active Member
Revelation shows that it will affect entire Earth, and is the last week of Daniel , the remaining last week!
Will you please show me where you get the gap in Daniel 9. Its a 490 year prophecy, not a 2,490 year. Why do you insist on a gap when its not biblically there?
prophecy70
Active Member
Who was the Man of Sin, and when did Jesus appear to destroy Him? Hint, at the same time of His second coming, yet to happen!
Please show me where it connects all of that.
That is correct, same with the complete idea of preterism, Im more of an idealist in revelations.
I don't agree.
Francisco Ribera (1537-1591) was a Jesuit doctor of theology, born in Spain, who began writing a lengthy commentary in 1585 on the book of Revelation (Apocalypse) titled In Sacrum Beati Ioannis Apostoli, & Evangelistiae Apocalypsin Commentarij, and published it about the year 1590. He died in 1591 at the age of fifty-four, so he was not able to expand on his work or write any other commentaries on Revelation. In order to remove the Catholic Church from consideration as the antichrist power, Ribera proposed that the first few chapters of the Apocalypse applied to ancient pagan Rome, and the rest he limited to a yet future period of 3 1/2 literal years, immediately prior to the second coming. During that time, the Roman Catholic Church would have fallen away from the pope into apostasy. Then, he proposed, the antichrist, a single individual, would:
- Persecute and blaspheme the saints of God.
- Rebuild the temple in Jerusalem.
- Abolish the Christian religion.
- Deny Jesus Christ.
- Be received by the Jews.
- Pretend to be God.
- Kill the two witnesses of God.
- Conquer the world.
Michael Walpole
Available Online: A Treatise of Antichrist. Conteyning the defence of Cardinall Bellarmines arguments, which inuincibly demonstrate, that the pope is not Antichrist. Against George Downam by Michael Christopherson priest ..., Volume 1 of 2 by the English Jesuit, Michael Walpole (1570-1624?), 1613 edition. Christopherson is a pseudonym for Walpole.
The third chapter, titled "Wherein it is shewed, that Antichrist is not yet come", (pages 49-51) discusses the protestant (Lutheran) Matthias Flacius Illyricus(1520-1575) and his Catalogue of Witnesses to the Truth who before our day cried out against the Pope (Catalogus Testium Veritatis - Basel, 1556), his Magdeburg Centuries (Ecclesiastica Historia, 1559 - 1574), an ecclesiastical history of 13 volumes (1 volume per century) to 1298 A.D. which established from that history that the Bishop of Rome was the Antichrist, and a 1260 year spiritual reign of the papal Antichrist, proposed to be from 606 - 1866 A.D., with the Lord's judgment commencing in 1866!
prophecy70
Active Member
Preterism was one of, if not the earliest eschetalogical position of early Christians, written about as early as the third Century by Eusebius of Caeseria between 300 and 310 ad. From that point on the Church writers were nearly universally partial or full preterists. As rigid historicism and end times cults have risen to prominence, the preterist position has come under attack. A prominent preterist exposition of prophecy was written by the Jesuit Luis de Alcasar during the Counter Reformation.[1][page needed][2] Moses Stuart noted that Alcasar's preterist interpretation was of considerable benefit to the Roman Catholic Church during its arguments with Protestants,[3] and preterism has been described in modern eschatological commentary as a Catholic defense against the Protestant Historicist view which identified the Roman Catholic Church as a persecuting apostasy.[4]
I guess I was mistaken So futurism was started then. But preterism was finally written down in response of the reformation. Thank you.
I guess I was mistaken So futurism was started then. But preterism was finally written down in response of the reformation. Thank you.
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prophecy70
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So basically everyone was preterist until the reformation, then A historical approach came and the Catholic church Made up futurism, but just wrote down the widely held view of the early church preterism. Robycop3 History is a wonderful thing isn't it?
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