Partial Preterism and Futurism Continued

[robycop3]

The Papacy may or may not be the Antichrist, but your viewpoint depends on it being so!

There's been a long line of popes, while the "beast" will be only one man. No other man can defeat the "beast", but the popes were defeated many times. Napoleon imprisoned one pope at Avignon. The popes kept largely silent while Hitler & Mussolini were in power. And NO pope has ever entered a temple in Jerusalem, nor had a miracle-working false prophet as his deputy.

 

[robycop3]

Scripture please

Rev. 19:19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. 20 Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone.

 

[robycop3]

Find one early church writing of an endtime antichrist.

Why do that when we have Daniel 9 & Rev. 13, some fifty verses of Scripture altogether referring to him?

 

[robycop3]

No apology, the prophecy is about Messiah, the prince. As I have repeatedly said angel said,the propheccy was about 6 things that were determined in the 70 weeks,

• 24Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

All these were fulfilled in Jesus and his ministry, The People Prince who was to come was a result of the Jews filling up the measure of their fathers, Matt 23, by murdering their king.

Titus was a prince in bible terms His father was emperor and Josephus constantly refers to Titus as Caesar which at that time was a title of the next in line, a bit like our Prince of Wales, or the French, Dauphin.

Actually, the prince isn't said to do anything. It his people that are the subject of the verse which was fulfilled literally to the letter. Jesus was the one who confirmed the covenant. Romans 15:8

How can you continue to say that, in the face of the Scripture which proves it wrong?

And Jesus never claimed to have a monopoly on covenant-making. A treaty between nations is a covenant. A covenant is any compact between parties.

 

[robycop3]

That has been the best clarification of this to me!! So honestly thank you.

Robycop3? Where are your explaintions?

The orthodox Jews simply don't accept the New Covenant , nor Jesus as Messiah. They fully intend to carry on with the old system of sacrifices when they have their new temple built.

 

[prophecy70]

Rev. 19:19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. 20 Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone.

And where in scripture does it link the beast to the man of sin and an antichrist and to the building of a third temple?

1st John 2:22
Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist--denying the Father and the Son.

1st john 4:3
but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

2nd john 1:7
I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.

How does that link up with the beast?

Deut 6:8, Deut 11:18, Exodus 13:9 -- God's marks commanded to be upon the head and hands of his people to show their faithfulness

literally marks as well?

 

[prophecy70]

The orthodox Jews simply don't accept the New Covenant , nor Jesus as Messiah. They fully intend to carry on with the old system of sacrifices when they have their new temple built.

Who is taking down the dome of the rock? 1.6 billion Muslims in this world, and they are just going to let that happen?

 

[Yeshua1]

You completely missed my point. You named Jesuits and my point was that Baptists don't follow Jesuits. So until you can find a link between the Jesuits and us Baptists, your mention of the Jesuits is totally unconnected to this discussion.
Can you source these allegations, or is it just from Wikipedia?

Just FYI, all historians of eschatology agree that the early church fathers were premil (but not necessarily pretrib). I could give a few quotes from the literature and the fathers, but won't have time today. I think I'll listen to the experts instead of you on this one. if you really want an unbiased, expert, non-dispensational view, I recommend that you abandon Wikipedia and read J. Barton Payne, Encyclopedia of Biblical Prophecy.

Yes, nearly all prominent ECF held to pre Mil views, and they no doubt got that from the Apostles while they were still alive!

 

[robycop3]

Daniel 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

exactly!!!! The people are the subject not the prince so the HE in verse 27 is still the Messiah.

No, it's the prince of those people. Here's proof:

Daniel 9:Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.

JESUS' covenant is FOR EVER, not just for one week.

 

[robycop3]

Who is taking down the dome of the rock? 1.6 billion Muslims in this world, and they are just going to let that happen?

Don't know that. It may not come down then. But the Jews WILL build a new temple in Jerusalem.

 

[prophecy70]

How can you continue to say that, in the face of the Scripture which proves it wrong?

And Jesus never claimed to have a monopoly on covenant-making. A treaty between nations is a covenant. A covenant is any compact between parties.

Daniel 9:26
And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

The people are the subject here, not the prince.

Daniel 9:27
And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

So HE is the messiah. The prince isn't the subject of either verse.

 

[prophecy70]

No, it's the prince of those people. Here's proof:

Oh but its not, its the People of the prince.

 

[Yeshua1]

John ca

Jesus said he was.

me in the power of Elijah, and was the forerunner of the Messiah, but many believe that the real Elijah would be on of those 2 witnesses in revelation...

 

[Yeshua1]

Who is taking down the dome of the rock? 1.6 billion Muslims in this world, and they are just going to let that happen?

The antichrist will make peace between arab muslims and the Jews..

 

[Yeshua1]

There's been a long line of popes, while the "beast" will be only one man. No other man can defeat the "beast", but the popes were defeated many times. Napoleon imprisoned one pope at Avignon. The popes kept largely silent while Hitler & Mussolini were in power. And NO pope has ever entered a temple in Jerusalem, nor had a miracle-working false prophet as his deputy.

That is why I do not agree with most Reformed that the Papacy was/is the Antichrist, maybe the False prophet!

 

[Covenanter]

No, it's the prince of those people. Here's proof:

Daniel 9:Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.

JESUS' covenant is FOR EVER, not just for one week.

The everlasting covenant - the relationship expressed as - "I will be their God & they will be my people" has been running from creation,
BUT
the basis for that covenant was obedience:

Exodus 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, then you shall be a special treasure to Me above all people; for all the earth is Mine. 6 And you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words which you shall speak to the children of Israel.”​

Messiah was the only one who lived in perfect obedience, & could confirm the covenant by his obedience & blood.

Why only one week? Jesus' ministry lasted half of one week, & the Apostles confirmed the covenant for a further half week until -
the Jews who rejected their Messiah were declared "uncircumcised" by the Spirit-inspired preaching of Stephen. The covenant was confirmed for a week with the Jews but did not then end. The Gospel was opened to uncircumcised Gentiles & runs on with Jew & Gentile, by faith, for all eternity.

 

[Revmitchell]

The Gospel was opened to uncircumcised Gentiles & runs on with Jew & Gentile, by faith, for all eternity.

Rom 11:25 Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

 

[Covenanter]

Rom 11:25 Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

True. The Gospel has NEVER been closed to Israel & the Jews.

What do you understand by: the fullness of the Gentiles has come in?
AND

Luke 21:And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.​

What does Scripture say will then happen?

 

[prophecy70]

The antichrist will make peace between arab muslims and the Jews..

Where does this information come from?

 

[Yeshua1]

True. The Gospel has NEVER been closed to Israel & the Jews.

What do you understand by: the fullness of the Gentiles has come in?
AND

Luke 21:And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.​

What does Scripture say will then happen?

Until the time of the rapture event, or until the Beginning of ther Great tribulation for Israel!