Partial Rapture

[RevJWWhiteJr]

Your twisting scripture again. Those are all tribulation saints who get saved after the rapture. There is no partial rapture.

I'm just reading what is there, that agrees with the rest of scripture. (Taking into account the "partial rapture", there should be two classes of "tribulation saint" seen coming out of the great tribulation.) Upon a thorough study of the book of Revelation,,,

Revelation 6:11
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their "fellowservants" also and their "brethren", that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Some of them did not have robes at the beginning of the great tribulation. That had to be completed. All must wait until others are killed as they were. Then all that have lost their lives and that will lose their lives are divided into two categories. Fellowservants and Brethren.

Two classifications. Using John (who is the observer) as a standin for either one, that would make him brethren to one group (saved before the rapture but not prepared) and fellowservant to the other (since they were saved after the Rapture and not a part of the Church during the Church Age.)

 

[Gabriel Elijah]

No, I am not a "KJV only folk". I am a get to the truth, the original meaning folk. The KJV is simply the easiest way to do that. I wont go into that here, but when I first became exposed to other versions in my teens, it was obvious they contained slight additions and omissions that result in the base meaning being altered. I am just being honest with the text. The translators of the KJ made a few slight "unfortunate" translations, and the original type set made two genuine errors. But as I said, they are correctable.

Am I am not to be trusted because I use what is easiest for me to understand? Because I simply use what I am familiar with?

And there is no such thing as a word for word translation from one language to another. The sentence structure, (and inferred meaning within Hebrew and Greek) will not allow it.

I’m surprised you didn’t use the good ol “Holy Ghost” expression from the KJV—a translation that befuddles me as a Greek student. But your eschatological views are interesting—although I don’t completely agree with them—they are at least biblically permissible when discussing the possibilities within the field of eschatology.
I just wish you’d refer to the Greek for linguistic evidence & leave the KJV out of the discussion—b/c relying so heavily on this archaic translation somewhat discredits your
otherwise well thought out research. But this is just a thought—considering I don’t think your theories as a whole are completely inconceivable & would be interested in knowing how credible the partial rapture theory is when the actual original language is considered—God Bless!

 

[freeatlast]

I'm just reading what is there, that agrees with the rest of scripture. (Taking into account the "partial rapture", there should be two classes of "tribulation saint" seen coming out of the great tribulation.) Upon a thorough study of the book of Revelation,,,

Revelation 6:11
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their "fellowservants" also and their "brethren", that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Some of them did not have robes at the beginning of the great tribulation. That had to be completed. All must wait until others are killed as they were. Then all that have lost their lives and that will lose their lives are divided into two categories. Fellowservants and Brethren.

Two classifications. Using John (who is the observer) as a standin for either one, that would make him brethren to one group (saved before the rapture but not prepared) and fellowservant to the other (since they were saved after the Rapture and not a part of the Church during the Church Age.)

Yes you are reading what is there and then you push into the passage what you want it to say. Every person who has even been or ever will be saved during the church age will be what makes up the bride. There is no partial rapture.

 

[quickened1]

I don't want anything to do with a debate but I will share my thoughts. On a time line, the church age is sort of like halftime of a football game. It has little to do with the game itself. God was dealing with the Jews during the days of the Mosaic law and up until they rejected Christ for a second time in Acts. Blindness in part came to Israel due to their unbelief. The gospel was taken to the gentiles and the body of Christ is being formed. When it is complete the entire body will be raptured out. The trib will begin. The trib is called the times of Jacobs trouble. This is where Israel and the jews will pass under the rod for rejecting Christ. This is not about the part of the church that supposingly lost it's virginity, passing under the rod.

I see a lot of problems with the view presented here of the partial rapture. The Christian has 2 righteousnesses, imputed and practical. He is justified and saved by the imputed righteousness which of course is actually Christ's righteousness. Now

 

[freeatlast]

I don't want anything to do with a debate but I will share my thoughts. On a time line, the church age is sort of like halftime of a football game. It has little to do with the game itself. God was dealing with the Jews during the days of the Mosaic law and up until they rejected Christ for a second time in Acts. Blindness in part came to Israel due to their unbelief. The gospel was taken to the gentiles and the body of Christ is being formed. When it is complete the entire body will be raptured out. The trib will begin. The trib is called the times of Jacobs trouble. This is where Israel and the jews will pass under the rod for rejecting Christ. This is not about the part of the church that supposingly lost it's virginity, passing under the rod.

I see a lot of problems with the view presented here of the partial rapture. The Christian has 2 righteousnesses, imputed and practical. He is justified and saved by the imputed righteousness which of course is actually Christ's righteousness. Now

Yep that be a fact. :thumbsup: There is no partial rapture.

 

[MB]

I’m surprised you didn’t use the good ol “Holy Ghost” expression from the KJV—a translation that befuddles me as a Greek student. But your eschatological views are interesting—although I don’t completely agree with them—they are at least biblically permissible when discussing the possibilities within the field of eschatology.
I just wish you’d refer to the Greek for linguistic evidence & leave the KJV out of the discussion—b/c relying so heavily on this archaic translation somewhat discredits your
otherwise well thought out research. But this is just a thought—considering I don’t think your theories as a whole are completely inconceivable & would be interested in knowing how credible the partial rapture theory is when the actual original language is considered—God Bless!

The truth often has this effect on those who follow a discredited text. Read the intro to your NA-27

MB

 

[quickened1]

I don't want anything to do with a debate but I will share my thoughts. On a time line, the church age is sort of like halftime of a football game. It has little to do with the game itself. God was dealing with the Jews during the days of the Mosaic law and up until they rejected Christ for a second time in Acts. Blindness in part came to Israel due to their unbelief. The gospel was taken to the gentiles and the body of Christ is being formed. When it is complete the entire body will be raptured out. The trib will begin. The trib is called the times of Jacobs trouble. This is where Israel and the jews will pass under the rod for rejecting Christ. This is not about the part of the church that supposingly lost it's virginity, passing under the rod.

I see a lot of problems with the view presented here of the partial rapture. The Christian has 2 righteousnesses, imputed and practical. He is justified and saved by the imputed righteousness which of course is actually Christ's righteousness. Now

Sorry. I posted accidently before I finished. Will finish the post now.

At the point of conversion, the soul becomes born again and then is sealed unto the day of redemption. There are 2 ways in which it is sealed. Inward and outward. Inside of you, your soul is enveloped by the Holy Spirit. Like a sandwich in a zip-lock bag. Your soul is now a chaste virgin and is ready to be presented to Christ. No amount of sinning will defile your soul for it is sealed. It is protected from sin just as the sandwich is protected from contamination.

From what I can see, the partial rapture puts the responsibilty of remaining a spiritual virgin, on a persons practical righteousness. That is not correct. Your practical righteousness has nothing to do with keeping yourself a spiritual virgin just as it has nothing to do with keeping you saved. You became a spiritual virgin via your imputed righteousness which lead to your soul being born again, then sealed. This sealing keeps you eternally secure.

In the O.T the O.T. saint's soul was stuck to his body. His soul was never born again so it would have been a waste of time to seal it. The cleansing he had to do was directly related to the fact that his soul was stuck to the body. The Christian dosen't have to use those cleansing methods because his soul isn't stuck to his body. The seal is betwen the body and soul. I can roll around on top of a dead animal carcass and it will have no effect on my soul whatsoever.

God divorced Israel for adultery as it defiled her soul since it was stuck to her body. That is, looking at Israel as one person. No seal, meant no way to keep the soul pure. The Christian though, that commits adultery, is still a spiritual virgin. He needs to repent and confess his sins but he will not lose his salvation.

We have to get it right back in Genesis. Recognize that death and life or something that you are joined to or seperated from. Christ is life and you only have spiritual life because you are in him. If you were seperated from him you would be spiritualy dead. There are only 2 positons or states, dead and alive. If you are seperated from one you are automatically joined to the other. Adam, as God's son, was joined to life. When he sinned his body became a body of death and his soul bonded with it and became one. You will notice marriage and headship figure in here. God uses headship for judgement purposes. The Jew is his chosen people and was to lead but he sinned and God then placed him under gentile rule. Adam's spirit was to lead but he sinned so the spirit was weakened and overcome by darkness and the soul bonded with the flesh. (He "walked according to his flesh). That was his death. That is how he was joined to death. Paul asked who shall deliver me from the body of this death? His soul was not bound to his flesh. What he was saying can be summed up by a familiar statement made by many Christians. "Im in this world but I'm not of it". That is, his soul was in his body but it was not of it (bound to it or one with it like in marriage).

I figured this idea where the soul is stuck to the body would be dismissed quickly so I wanted to explain it.

 

[RevJWWhiteJr]

Uh,, well okay. I understand that relationship a little differently than that though. But that illustration doesn't account for the New Testament illustration of the "garment spotted by the flesh". I agree that the "spirit/soul" of the believing individual remains intact eternally. But the partial rapture is based on us keeping our wedding garment unsoiled and undefiled.

Revelation 3:4
4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have "not" defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.

The mention of the "few" who had not defiled their garments, leaves a majority of the many who had. Since the "few" will walk with Christ in white, the many will not. And this can not be referring to the lost individuals that are simply in attendance, since the lost do not have garments to defile.

 

[freeatlast]

Uh,, well okay. I understand that relationship a little differently than that though. But that illustration doesn't account for the New Testament illustration of the "garment spotted by the flesh". I agree that the "spirit/soul" of the believing individual remains intact eternally. But the partial rapture is based on us keeping our wedding garment unsoiled and undefiled.

Revelation 3:4
4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have "not" defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.

The mention of the "few" who had not defiled their garments, leaves a majority of the many who had. Since the "few" will walk with Christ in white, the many will not. And this can not be referring to the lost individuals that are simply in attendance, since the lost do not have garments to defile.

You really do not get it! We have no ability to keep our garments white. Only the blood of Christ cleanses us from all unrighteousness. However you say it is His work to start with and ours to complete. Never going to happen! Our righteous deeds are as a filthy rag.
The passage to have chosen is not that some individual had white garments and then they became defiled because of some sin. It is a body that once had white garments and departed from the truth thus defiling their garments though another generation. He calls them dead in 3:1. Christians are not dead! They are made alive in Christ and will never die again. You are trying to force a false doctrine into scripture. There is no partial rapture.

 

[RevJWWhiteJr]

Death, in metephoric illustration, has a definition few are aware of. Since much of Revelation is sybolic, we can assume it would apply. Especially in the passage you mention.

You really do not get it!

I'm following you, the scripture just forces me to disagree.

We have no ability to keep our garments white. Only the blood of Christ cleanses us from all unrighteousness.

In salvation, yes. We are the children of God, and that will never change.

However you say it is His work to start with and ours to complete.

His work saves us. Our faithfulness keeps us in fellowship, walking in the spirit of God.

Never going to happen! Our righteous deeds are as a filthy rag.

Our own righteousness is as filthy rags to God in relation to "acquiring" salvation yes. You can't do anything to get saved. You can't "be" good enough to become a child of God.

The passage to have chosen is not that some individual had white garments and then they became defiled because of some sin. It is a body that once had white garments and departed from the truth thus defiling their garments though another generation. He calls them dead in 3:1. Christians are not dead! They are made alive in Christ and will never die again. You are trying to force a false doctrine into scripture. There is no partial rapture.

The church of Sardis was told the following.

Revelation 3:1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, "and" art dead. 2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.

He tells them first, that they live. They are alive, saved. BUT, that they are "also" dead. This is an illustration or symbolic, therefore the metephorical of the definition of "deed" would apply.

dead - inactive as respects doing right
Enhanced Strong’s Lexicon, (Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.) 1995.

They had become inactive in faithful service to God and their behavior in respect to their BrideGroom. Further, there were other things that were ready to die. If repentance didn't occur, they would move even further from God's will and his presence.

And none of the seven churches of Revelation (the portions of the congregations that are being addressed by Christ) are lost. He is always speaking to believers. Non-believers are not servants to God. (And the lost do not have garments to defile.)

Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto "his servants" things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

 

[freeatlast]

No it is not the scripture that has convinced you. It is your own desire to think that you and some few others are going to be part of some elite and because of this you have blinded yourself by twisting the word of God to fit your own agenda.
Scripture is clear that we, the saved, are all saints and priests unto God. We will all be judged at one point and receive our rewards according to our life in the flesh, but we do not become divorced from the bridegroom at any point for any reason. The proof of our engagement is the Spirit of God and He does not leave the believer. Even those who are wood, hay and stubble receive the Spirit. Your doctrine is false and not of the Lord. There is no partial rapture.

 

[Dr. Bob]

Pastor the 10-page limit (appreciate those unhappy with the tone of the thread "whistle blowing" to close it).

Will see you all in glory.