Pascal's Wager

[Benjamin]

re: "Regarding judgment for actions [having a lack of belief]: Then show me a case where a creature can be held responsible for his actions [having a lack of belief] pertaining to that he has no [conscious] choice in the matter of making [having] it?"

Revelation 21:8: "But the...unbelieving...shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."
　

I have never been able to consciously CHOOSE any of the beliefs that I hold or have held,...

re: "You know that for certain about what I see?"

Of course not. I was saying that what you said you see about me is not correct. I do not see myself to be one of the lucky pre-selected few who has been forced to have faith.

I have never been able to consciously CHOOSE any of the beliefs that I hold or have held,...

I think maybe I should just sit on the side lines on this one, the opponent has enough trouble already... :smilewinkgrin:

 

[Magnetic Poles]

After thinking about it I realize that is would be just as valid a wager if posed by a person of any religious persuasion. For instance a Hindu or a follower of Islam, just like a Christian, could well say to an atheist, "I have everything to gain if I am correct and nothing to loose if you are correct."

This is an important point that should not get lost. Pascal's Wager is as valid for ANY religion as it is for Christianity. Thus, it fails.

 

[Benjamin]

This is an important point that should not get lost. Pascal's Wager is as valid for ANY religion as it is for Christianity. Thus, it fails.

Problem is that a more important point is that those who believe "ANY" religion should be as vaild as Christianity are showing they are unfortunately stuck on a point that will get them lost.

BTW, would you like to explain the message of the little guy in your signature line???

 

[Magnetic Poles]

Problem is that a more important point is that those who believe "ANY" religion should be as vaild as Christianity are showing they are unfortunately stuck on a point that will get them lost.

But irrelevant if you are using it as an evangelization tool, as to an unbeliever all may indeed be viewed as equivalent. It is only as a believer that one makes the distinction.

BTW, would you like to explain the message of the little guy in your signature line???

No message at all. I just thought he looked cool. Hopefully we all have days that make us jump with joy!

 

[quantumfaith]

This is an important point that should not get lost. Pascal's Wager is as valid for ANY religion as it is for Christianity. Thus, it fails.

That is a very good point. It's only validity, is that it might make a case for theism. Although, many a theists, particularly of the highly educated variety have a number of strong arguments to "poke holes" in the logic.

 

[glfredrick]

Some here are questioning Pascal's Wager (PW) from the grounds of evangelism (no repentance, etc.). To me, PW should be called part of pre-evangelism, or more specifically apologetics. I think it is very valuable to open someone's heart to the Gospel, just like disproving evolution or taking a loaf of bread to a poor person. PW is not evangelism, but it can prepare for evangelism--which then will include repentance and faith.

I see Pascal's Wager in a similar light. There are multiple things happening in any evangelistic endeavor, one of which is a plea to human logic -- apologetics intended to create a starting point -- there IS a probability for God. That step comes first before an atheist will even consider what that God may have said.

That being said, the biggest part of the evangelistic endeavor is not what we do or what we say, but what the Holy Spirit does in ways that we cannot understand, see, or manipulate. He will convict the heart that the words being heard are truth, He will set forth the effectual call that brings one to regeneration. None of those are things that we can humanly "argue" a person to hold.

So, if I can use Pascal or other similar apologetic logical arguments to cause someone to dwell on the things of God for even a moment, coupled with prayer that the Holy Spirit do what only He can do, I may have a chance at seeing God work in an individual in a way that brings Him glory and fulfills my mandate to be an evangelist and a discipler of the lost.

 

[rstrats]

Benjamin,

re: "I think maybe I should just sit on the side lines on this one..."
　
Probably a good idea until you come to realize that beliefs cannot be consciously CHOSEN. I wonder, though, if you might come off the bench long enough to answer the question that I asked you in post #30?