Passages that deal with salvation ignored!

[JSM17]

I have been on this post for several weeks, I have enjoyed it very much, thanks again for all those who put up with me. But I would like to make an observation and I think it will be interesting if we can deal with the passages in the New Testament that deal with the word saved, salvation. Since a majority of you believe in salvation by faith alone, I think it will be intersting to see what many do with other passages that contend for salvation by means that are joined to faith, or follow faith.

There are at least 105 passages that use the words saved, saves, and salvation, to which not all refer to faith or faith alone; 105 passages to which none refer to faith alone.

This tells me that faith along with other ideas brought forward by inspiration refer to salvation by means other than just faith.

Since we all agree that salvation requires faith, let us not argue that point to death. But let us look at other passages that include the topic of salvation connected to things such as confession and repentance and hope and blood and baptism and obedience.

The problem I see is that many are ready to stand on the passages that teach salvation by faith, but are not willing to agree with passages that teach that salvation is obtained by repentance, that is it preceeds salvation and leads to one being saved.

Logically if one is saved by faith alone then he is NOT saved by repentance. This is just one example.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Logically if one is saved by faith alone then he is NOT saved by repentance. This is just one example.

Repentance is part of saving faith. They go hand in hand. So there is no conflict here.

 

[DeafPosttrib]

Also, read Hebrews chapter 11 talks about the examples of O.T. saints' faith, what they did in their lifetime. Faith is more than just believed, also, it include obedience with action.

Noah is the one of examples on faith in Hebrews chapter 11. When God called Noah. He told Noah that, He is going to destroy earth with flood. He told him, to built the Ark. Noah was not doubting God's words. He believed Him. Not only believe on God's words, also, he did obeyed God's instruction to built the Ark. Noah builted Ark, it took 120 years to completed. What if suppose, people make fun at him, and give him presssure, feel like want to quit built Ark, and turn back to world. Noah and his family would have been perished in the flood already. And our gospel would have been vain. We thank that Noah did endure built the Ark for 120 years because of his obedience.

By the way, we agree that we are saved by the grace THROUGH faith - Eph. 2:-9.

Funny, in Genesis chapter 8 tells us, Noah found grace of God. This seem means that Noah was saved before God tell him to built the Ark. But, my understanding, when God saw Noah was upright and walk holy life, avoid the evil things, that's how God favored with Noah. Grace is a favor by God as He sees person who walk in the faith, God give the mercy upon the person because of faith. See?

Noah was saved by his FAITH, because he believed in God while obeyed Him same time.

Faith is an action and also conditional too.

Throughout in Bible did explaining on 'faith' it have conditionals.

For example, Apostle Paul warned, that person's faith could be "shipwreck", so, their faith are conditional, if they turn away from the Lord.

See? My point is.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Pastor Larry: Repentance is part of saving faith. They go hand in hand. So there is no conflict here.

HP: Who says that repentance is just part of faith? Do you have a verse in mind? Why could not one say, with every whit the authority you base your claim on, that faith is just a part of repentance, repantance and faith going hand in hand? Why could not one state that we are saved by repentance alone, faith just being understood as part of it?

Lu 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Deafposttrib: Also, read Hebrews chapter 11 talks about the examples of O.T. saints' faith, what they did in their lifetime. Faith is more than just believed, also, it include obedience with action.

HP: That is certainly scriptural. :thumbsup:
Faith without obedience in action is termed 'dead.' Dead faith will save no one. Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

 

[Pastor Larry]

HP: Who says that repentance is just part of faith? Do you have a verse in mind? Why could not one say, with every whit the authority you base your claim on, that faith is just a part of repentance, repantance and faith going hand in hand?

They could. They are two sides of the same coin. Acts 11:17-18 show clearly that the two are used virtually synonymously in salvation.

Why could not one state that we are saved by repentance alone, faith just being understood as part of it?

Lu 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

You cite the verse that proves the point.

So there is no real conflict here.

 

[OldRegular]

HP: Who says that repentance is just part of faith? Do you have a verse in mind? Why could not one say, with every whit the authority you base your claim on, that faith is just a part of repentance, repantance and faith going hand in hand? Why could not one state that we are saved by repentance alone, faith just being understood as part of it?

Lu 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

How can anyone repent of sin until he believes in the God who forgives those sins?

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Old Regular: How can anyone repent of sin until he believes in the God who forgives those sins?

HP: Repentance is showing remorse for ones sins. It is seeing sin reprehensible as God sees it. Repentance involves a heart willing to cease and turn away from those intents and actions known to their heart as sin.

Ask the prophets. Ask Jesus. Ask the Apostles. They all came preaching repentance. Repentance was demanded of the sinner as a condition of salvation, without which no one can be saved or any belief made a saving belief. Man is required first to repent and then to believe. Repentance is required antecedent to any and all forgiveness for sin.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Pastor Larry: So there is no real conflict here.

HP: I wish that were true but reality tells me differently. If I were a betting man I believe the following statement would be an accurate depiction of your true sentiments.

The following is NOT a quote from Larry, but it is a quote I have heard often from numerous pulpits. I would like to hear Larry’s response to it. “Man does not repent in order to be saved, nor is repentance a condition of salvation. Man repents because he has been saved, not in order to be saved.”

 

[TCGreek]

Repentance is part of saving faith. They go hand in hand. So there is no conflict here.

Whenever they appear in the same text, repentance always precedes faith (so much for the COC five steps, which is out of order, according to Scripture).

With that in mind, they are two sides of the same coin, one negative, repentance, and the other positive, faith.

Yes, repentance precedes faith from a human standpoint, but it's not until faith is put in Christ, the object of saving faith, is a person really saved.

A turning from, repentance, is incomplete, without a turning to, in this case, Christ, the object of saving faith.

Paul said that he preached both to the Jews and the Gentiles (Acts 20:21).

There's no mention of water baptism.

PS

I'm with you Pastor Larry. :thumbsup:

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

TCG: With that in mind, they are two sides of the same coin, one negative, repentance, and the other positive, faith.

HP: I am curious as to why you would view repentance as something ‘negative?’

 

[Pastor Larry]

I wish that were true but reality tells me differently. If I were a betting man I believe the following statement would be an accurate depiction of your true sentiments.

The following is NOT a quote from Larry, but it is a quote I have heard often from numerous pulpits. I would like to hear Larry’s response to it. “Man does not repent in order to be saved, nor is repentance a condition of salvation. Man repents because he has been saved, not in order to be saved.”

Whoever says that is wrong. Repentance is not the result of salvation. It is the basis for salvation.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Pastor Larry: Whoever says that is wrong. Repentance is not the result of salvation. It is the basis for salvation.

HP: Help me understand what you mean. Do you understand the distinction between the grounds of salvation and conditions of salvation, or do you believe that no such distinction exists? I would consider repentance clearly a condition of salvation, but I would not say that it is the ‘basis’ for salvation, for to me the ‘basis’ of salvation speaks to the grounds of salvation, ( something thought of in the sense of that for the sake of) not a condition of (conditions of salvation thought of in the sense of 'not without which').

If I were speaking about the ‘basis of salvation’ I would be referring to the grounds of salvation, something thought of in the sense of 'that for the sake of,' which I believe is the grace of God and NOT faith, belief, repentance, or obedience on our part thought of in any manner.

 

[DeafPosttrib]

Pastor Larry says:

Whosoever says that is wrong. Repentance is not the result of salvation. It is the basis for salvation

Whoa! Are you sincerely mean that repentance is not require for salvation?

In 2 Peter 3:9 tells us, God doesn't want all people go perish, but He wants ALL people come to repentance. This verse is clear speaking of repentance is require for salvation, God's Will that He wants ALL people over the world come and repentance of their sins, if they don't, they would go perish in everlasting fire. Repentance is a conditional. Repentance is clearly that, God commands every one come and repent for salvation. That most people go to hell with their sins, because they refuse repent their sins toward God.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[OldRegular]

Old Regular: How can anyone repent of sin until he believes in the God who forgives those sins?

HP: Repentance is showing remorse for ones sins. It is seeing sin reprehensible as God sees it. Repentance involves a heart willing to cease and turn away from those intents and actions known to their heart as sin.

That is nonsense. Until I believe that God holds me accountable for my sin I am not going to cease and turn away from sin. The Apostle Paul tells us the following about the unregenerate man:

1Corinthians 2:14. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

It is therefore not possible for the unregenerate man to exercise repentance toward God. Scripture tells us about Judas:

Matthew 27:3-5
3. Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,
4. Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that.
5. And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.

Now you are not going to tell me that Judas was saved are you?

HP:Ask the prophets. Ask Jesus. Ask the Apostles. They all came preaching repentance. Repentance was demanded of the sinner as a condition of salvation, without which no one can be saved or any belief made a saving belief. Man is required first to repent and then to believe. Repentance is required antecedent to any and all forgiveness for sin.

Nonsense. Repentance follows saving faith which is the gift of God after regeneration.

 

[DeafPosttrib]

OldRegular,

I know where you are from. You are a Calvinist. Calvinists believe in Total Depravity, the one of Five Points. For me, I believe we are all total depravity, but that doesn't mean we cannot respond the gospels, and we are not God's robots.

Bible teaches that God commands EVERY persons to repent, that is God's Will.

Truly, 'natural man' (flesh and unsaved) cannot understand spiritual things, because that person is not yet born again. Yet, John 3,5 is very clear that Christ commands us, "Ye MUST be born again, Or.... you cannot inherit the kingdom God, that means, a person must be born again, or cannot have eternal life. Born again is same as common sense of repentance. At first, we all were born in sins and being dead come from Adams - Romans 5:12. So, therefore we must born again to receive Holy Spirit for salvation.

Born again always include with repentance, believe, confess, call, and also baptized too all go together same time.

Born again is a command from God for everyone must to be born again. So, therefore, being born again is conditional, what if they refuse born again, then, they cannot have eternal life("inherit the kingdom of God").

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[OldRegular]

posted by Heavenly Pilgrim
The following is NOT a quote from Larry, but it is a quote I have heard often from numerous pulpits. I would like to hear Larry’s response to it. “Man does not repent in order to be saved, nor is repentance a condition of salvation. Man repents because he has been saved, not in order to be saved.”

I am not Larry but I will give you my opinion. I agree with the above statement. I also agree with a statement that I believe Pastor Larry made: faith and repentance are opposite sides of the same coin. Once a man exercises saving faith he will better understand that his sins were really sins against a Holy God and repentance will naturally follow. But until I have experienced the salvation God provides there is no reason for me see myself as a sinner and to repent.

 

[DeafPosttrib]

Ezekiel Chapter 18 describes on repentance - "turn from" is very clear, and it is very powerful message with warning. This chapter shows that it is conditional. If we do not turn away from sins, we shall be bring forth to death. 'Death' is not speaking of physically, but spiritually, which lead to everlasting fire according Romans 6:23a and Rev. 20:14 - "second death' which is in the lake of fire.

Larry and OldRegular both are partially correct that, both faith and repent are on same coin. That's true, but, yet, repentance is command from God, that every person must repent of sins, or otherwise, they shall perish.

Therefore, both faith and repentance are both reguirement for salvation, if they do not put faith in Christ, and not repent of sins, while they are continue sinning, so, therefore, they are leading toward their destruction in everlasting fire. Both faith and repent arw conditional, if they endure in them, they shall have eternal life at the end, or otherwise, if they fail endure, they will be end up in destruction.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Old Regular: But until I have experienced the salvation God provides there is no reason for me see myself as a sinner and to repent.

HP: I am certainly of a differing opinion, but I wish to make it clear that I believe men can see this issue different ways and yet both be saved. I do believe one way confuses the listener as to his obligation and duty before God, but God often looks past ones theological abilities and looks upon the heart. We should all be grateful for that. Right theology saves no one in and of itself.

 

[TCGreek]

HP: I am curious as to why you would view repentance as something ‘negative?’

HP, because of what a person has to turn from, that which is against God.